Avoiding Pitfalls: Keys to Short Sale Success

April 23, 2024

Title: “Avoiding Pitfalls: Keys to Short Sale Success”

Episode: 229

“Even if you are still working a day job, you can still do this on the side and should do this on the side until you have a pipeline.”

In this episode of Profit First for REI podcast, we interviewed David Randolph. He is a real estate investor best known for his highly profitable success in the Short Sales arena.

He has one of the best systems that gets people real results. Now, he wants to share it with you!

Listen as you will learn great lessons: ways of buying properties, getting into real estate, and how to do short-sale deals. Enjoy the show!

Key Takeaways:

[00:46] Introducing David Randolph [02:28] Focusing on short sales [09:07] The pitfalls of short sales [10:54] How long is the cash conversion cycle? [16:10] The team size on short-sales [20:12] Right way to run a business [26:00] “I would’ve sought expert help in the education field earlier.” [27:12] Connect with David Randolph

Quotes:

[08:22] “You want to run a business? You want to make money? Short sales is one way to make a lot of money.” [13:48] “Anybody in the United States can negotiate a short sale with the bank. Anybody, with the exceptions of California and Florida…” [21:19] “When you are making a lot of money, you don’t need a lot of money to live off of. So why should you be making it and paying taxes? Why don’t you do these deals in your retirement account vehicles?”

Connect with David:

Website: https://thedavidrandolph.com/

Tired of living deal to deal?

If you are a real estate investor or business owner who is tired of living deal to deal and want to double your profits, head over here to book your no-obligation discovery call with me. Either myself or someone from my team will hop on a short call with you to get clear on your business goals, remove any obstacles holding you back, and map out a game plan to help you finally start keeping more of the money you work so hard to make. – David

Transcript:

Speaker 1 (00:00):

It’s all about when you’re making a lot of money, you don’t need a lot of money to live off of. Why should you be making it and paying taxes? Why don’t you do these deals in your retirement account? IRA vehicles instead of doing them in your LLC?

Speaker 2 (00:18):

If you’re a real estate investor who’s sick and tired of living deal to deal, then welcome home. Hear from everyday real estate investors just like you, and discover how they’ve completely transformed their business by taking a profit First approach. This is the profit first for REI podcast, where we believe revenue is vanity. Profit is sanity. It’s time to start making profit a habit in your business. So here’s your host, David Richter.

Speaker 3 (00:45):

Have David Randolph on the show today. Super excited to have him on because he can teach you a way of buying properties that if you are not doing right now in your repertoire, I would add to it. Or if you’re looking to get into real estate, this might be the way to do it because he says, and I quote, even if you’re still working a day job, Walmart, wherever, you can still do this on the side and should do this on this side until you have a pipeline. And I think this methodology works. I know several people that use this, that this is a great method of buying properties for them and they make insane amounts of money on the backend. So I highly encourage you to listen to this whole episode. Take as much as you can and learn from David. Thank you for listening to the show. Hey, so we have David Randolph here in the studio. Super excited to have him. He’s the short sale cane. There’s other people out there doing short sales. I feel like he’s got one of the best systems out there that gets people real results and big results too. So David, thanks for being on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:48):

Yeah. Hey, listen, I’m so excited to be here.

Speaker 3 (01:51):

I’m excited to have you because I’ve now met you several times throughout the years at different events and all people I respect and then I loved it. One of the meetings that we were at together, I feel like they really dove into your business and started picking it apart and asking you a million questions. That was one of the funnest things to be because you were just painting pawning every single question back to them. And here, this is what I do, and no, it’s not like that. It’s like this and it was great. But before we go into the nuts and bolts of that, what made you focus on short sales specifically when there’s so many exit strategies or ways to get into real estate or ways to acquire?

Speaker 1 (02:28):

Well, my wife and I started in real estate together back in 2009, and as you recall, that was a pretty big crisis in temporary

Speaker 3 (02:37):

At that time. Yeah, quite a big one.

Speaker 1 (02:38):

Foreclosures were everywhere. And so we said, okay, look, we’re new to real estate. We have to have a method to buy houses. How do we want to do that? And we thought, well, yeah, we could buy off the MLS, but that’s kind of impersonal. And we thought, Hey, how can we help families out? How can we help take a family who’s in trouble in a life situation, in a crisis situation, step in, be able to help them out and still run this as a business and make money? And so back then, that was short sales, that was stopping that bank who was taking that home from the homeowner, often not following any kind of guidelines at all. And so I don’t want to say it was kind of a ministry for my wife and I, we were absolutely making money at it, but we decided that we wanted to have a contribution to this to be able to help these families out, keep ’em in the houses longer, get the money from the bank, get their credit reports cleaned up from foreclosure and stuff. So it was kind of a way to help families out.

Speaker 3 (03:37):

Okay. I love that. I think we could probably stay there for a little bit, but I think a lot of people don’t go into real estate thinking that sometimes what’s the best way we could help and what’s the route that we could in really helping families? So I think that’s a great first question to ask to yourself. So if you’re listening to this, take that and run with it. How can you help in this situation with the sellers out there in the marketplace? So then you stuck with short sales. So you started in 2009 and you went the short sale route up upfront. So from then right up front,

Speaker 1 (04:12):

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:13):

How many short sales have you done then over the years?

Speaker 1 (04:16):

Not very many at all. Okay. So I’ll give you my 32nd background of what I’m as a real estate investor. So back then I started out with my wife and I doing it now she doesn’t do it with me anymore, by the way. She’s now into health and wellness and has her own business and everything. Like

Speaker 3 (04:34):

Health coaching or Yeah. Yeah. Oh, very

Speaker 1 (04:37):

Cool. Yeah, she’s got her own business now and real estate’s funding it.

Speaker 3 (04:40):

That’s awesome

Speaker 1 (04:42):

There. But anyway, we started out new in 2009, and so I learned how to rehab houses. So basically I’m a rehabber. I rehab five to 10 houses a year. Now, one of my claims to fame is all my renovated houses that I put up for sale on the MLS under 265,000 here in St. Louis, Missouri where I live, they have all sold in seven days or less Atlas price or higher for 14 years.

Speaker 3 (05:12):

Wow.

Speaker 1 (05:12):

Drop dead gorgeous. Now I kind of have an unfair advantage. I’m making 50. This is me personally, not else but me. And so I’m making 50 to $150,000 profit on each house, and these are 250,000 houses. So it’s not that impressive. They sold in seven days. I want to stay three days, just lower the price and make 140,000. Right? But the cool part is that that way of buying houses, my method is short sale. That’s what I do. I work with the homeowner. So I want to be clear, these are not on the MLS with the realtor. These are not listed, but I work with the homeowner, stop the foreclosure date and then negotiate directly with the bank, and that’s the kind of short sale that I do. Very unique. I am the buyer and the negotiator. Anyway, so we started doing that as our way of buying houses and started getting really good at that for 14 years that I ended up with over three and a half million dollars in cash in my retirement accounts, my IRAs 4 0 1 Ks.

(06:17):

Now I am not retired. So it’s like, oops, what do I do? And so I basically became what’s called a hard money lender, somebody that lends money to other rehabbers, but my heart is to help the new rehabbers. So as my money. So I said, okay, my heart is to help new people get started. So I actually currently and for 11 years have been giving them all the money to buy it, to fix it up. The points on the loan, the monthly interest payments, they need no money at all. It’s all paid back when they sell the house. There’s no credit check, no tax returns, no bank statements, and it goes on for another two pages of stuff on there. And you’ve got

Speaker 3 (07:00):

To really trust those people then.

Speaker 1 (07:02):

Well, yes and no. Let’s think about it this way in the lending program, and this is the way it should be in any hard money program is the worst thing that happens to me is they pay me back. Okay. If they don’t, then I get the house and I make all their profit that they walked away from. So when you are a rehabber as I am, the risk is very low for me to be a hard money lender. I can take the house back and stuff. But anyway, so moving on from there. Then I basically about four years ago, people said, Hey, David, you need to teach other people how to do that in short sales. And so a lot of the greats that are out there, John hired Jeff Watson, Pete Fordo and others, McCloskey, and many others said, you need to teach that. So four years ago I started teaching other people how to do short sales, and it’s just been an awesome time.

(07:58):

I had a student last month who basically reported to me that he made $98,000 profit on his first short sale, and last year, I know I had four other students report the same thing. The banks are dumping their houses, and that’s kind of really a good takeaway from this podcast here for your viewers is, Hey, you want to run a business? You want to make money. Short sales is one way to make a whole lot of money. Then you got to deal with all the taxes and all the expenses and everything and everything that you teach. That’s what you set people up, is to run a business. Well, the whole thing to business is marketing and having income, right? Right, exactly. A great way. But anyway, so now I’ve been teaching it for four years and I got students all across the United States, and so I’m just kind of a regular real estate investor guy teaching other people how to do it.

Speaker 3 (08:55):

That’s awesome. So then with all of your experience with short sales, what are some of the biggest pitfalls of short sales and getting into that world that might keep someone away that you’ve been able to conquer and overcome?

Speaker 1 (09:07):

The biggest one is most people are afraid that they’re going to hurt the homeowner. So they never step in to help them. They never step in to do anything to get them out of foreclosure. Look, these people have made their own mistakes. They got their self into their own situation. You’re not going to be making it any worse for them.

(09:27):

So people will shy away from that. The other strange one is this. This is very interesting. They say, well, I tried short sales and it was horrible and it was terrible. They lost my paperwork and it was just terrible to do it. That’s a myth. It’s a giant myth. The banks are institutions, government regulated. They don’t lose squat. They don’t lose anything. What happened was you didn’t know how to fill out the paperwork. You sent it into the bank and they rejected it. Now, they’re not paid to teach you on the telephone how to do a short sale and how to fill it out. So you say, well, this sucks, and can we say that on a podcast? Yeah, yeah, it’s fine. So this sucks and they lost my paperwork and it’s terrible and everything. No, you filled it out wrong. They rejected your paperwork and you thought they lost it. And so that’s a big other myth that people have with this that keeps investors probably from stepping in is this wrong notion that the banks lose their paperwork. It’s not true at

Speaker 3 (10:30):

All. Okay, so you’re making a lot of money on when you buy it off of short sale, what is usually the turnaround time from you actually get the property either under contract, you’re able to move forward to buy it to when the cash comes in the door, like your cash conversion cycle. How long is it usually these short sales? Are they all different?

Speaker 1 (10:54):

Yeah. Well, I mean generally, how long does it take to negotiate a short sale? Well, my answer to that is as long as possible. Okay. Because the longer it takes, the lower your prices. Like the house I did on drive, I bought it for $29,600 and sold it for 2 75. I was in no hurry to speed that one up. The longer I take the lower the price that I get, it allows me the opportunity to dispute, dispute and dispute with the bank more and more, but generally around four months, six months. So it does take a while, and I tell people, Hey, look, don’t quit your day job. If you’re working at Walmart, stay at Walmart until you get a backlog of about 10 of these built up and you’re rehabbing maybe 10 houses, then quit your job. But there’s no work. I mean, the fastest one that I did, I got a one-on-one coaching program, and I needed these training videos for one house all the way through.

(11:51):

So I did an entire short sale in two months. Okay. Whoa. Two months very fast now, and it was actually only 22 hours, so there’s a good 22 hours is all that work was for the house. Now, I bought the house for $58,000. Okay, this is 26, 29 Susan Avenue. You can go look it up. And so I bought it for 58,000, but I know I could have bought it for 42. I know I could have, but that would’ve taken another three calendar weeks of time with a bank and another two hours to negotiate that. But I needed the videos, and so I stopped there and I bought it for 58. Now, you don’t need to cry for me because I did a $30,000 rehab, so I had 88 in it, and then I sold it on public records for $220,000. So sometimes you don’t need to get the 42. So I think it’s a variable thing that you need to decide how low a price you want to get with a bank.

Speaker 3 (12:49):

Okay, so I like how you said that too, that if you’re going to start to do these, don’t quit your day job, but once you get a backlog, then it could be like, yeah, now we can’t quit the day job because of the backlog that you get there. That’s just very interesting to me that you’re making that profit consistently. Do you think your market has a lot to do with it too? Can people do this in any market?

Speaker 1 (13:16):

Oh, I’ve got students in six different states. The one last month was in Chattanooga, Tennessee that he made $98,000. A short sale is federal. The short sale process is identical in every state, what you do with the bank, and that negotiation is identical in every state. Now, the only that’s interesting, what we might think of as some exception to it would be that in California and Florida, so let’s do it backwards. I’ll say it this way. Anybody in the United States can negotiate a short sale with a bank. Anybody with the exceptions of California and Florida in both those states, you need to work with a realtor, a licensed real estate agent on it. But that’s fine because I actually do that in Missouri anyway, because I have a team approach to this, and I have a realtor on my team to do the listing farming.

(14:11):

I pay off a thousand dollars flat fee transaction broker agreement with them and have me on there anyway, just because I don’t want to have to go through. See, I used to, people have so many misconceptions that banks that, do you have to list a home? Well, yes and no. And I used to have a series of paperwork emails I gave you the bank where basically they’re saying, well, we want you to list the home on them LS. And I’m like, really? Do you really want me to do that? And I would send these things in. Finally, I would get to this one that I would say to the bank, okay, so wait, Mr. Bank, let’s see. So we an agreed, we have a purchase sale contract. We got the buyer sell on a contract, and you’ve come out and you’ve done this appraisal and you’ve determined the value of what you want for it, and it’s the same number and the same price.

(14:58):

So everybody’s got an agreement, but yet you want me to now go list the house? Okay, wait, let me go get the realtor. We’ll drop your net by 6%. Okay, the commission, so it’s going to drop it now, hang on. I’ll go get the realtor and they’ll go, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, you’re right. We don’t need a realtor because see now they’re bottom line. They just lost 6%. Okay, so you can do that even today on some most short sales. I don’t actually do it because I’m lazy, because I just don’t want to take that time that I would lose physically like three weeks, four weeks of time that I just pay a thousand dollars flat fee to a listing agent who does nothing, zero. They don’t make any decisions. I fill all the paperwork out. I do everything with the homeowner. They literally get their wire at closing and say, Hey, Dave, I guess you did another short seal. Yep. Check your email for your signed documents for your brokers. So you’re inclined save your PDFs and stuff. And so anybody can do this across the United States.

Speaker 3 (16:02):

That’s awesome. Now you don’t run a huge team. Correct. What does the team size look like to run this type of operation?

Speaker 1 (16:11):

Well, maybe you can explain that to us. What’s a typical team size you see in a business? It’s the same. I have a bookkeeper. I have a rehab manager for my rehabs, it’s no different. Okay. I’m doing the negotiation with the bank, but my bookkeeper’s typing all the paperwork up because I make too much money to type. I have a person that mails my letters. I make too much money to hand write letters. I’m just sorry. That’s where I’m at. So I pay a lady with shaky handwriting to send out the letters to the people that are in trouble. The foreclosure people, those who have a foreclosure date, that’s who I mail to, who I’m trying to help is those with a publicly listed foreclosure date on it. And so the team is really small, and if you’re going to wholesale, then you don’t need a rehab manager. You might have somebody that might help you list it. I mean, so on my exit side, when I rehab the house, I’ve got a realtor that I pay an hourly wage to sell my houses because I think realtors should get more than just a commission. So I actually pay an hourly wage for a realtor to work for me all the time, so that way they’re not starving in between paycheck type thing. So it’s really a very small team on there.

(17:38):

It’s 22 hours over two months.

Speaker 3 (17:40):

Yeah. Wow. No, that’s incredible. It sounds like if you’re listening to this, this is something you could jump into. You don’t need a bunch of on the team, and you don’t have to quit your day job. So it’s sound better and better. Okay. You had talked about you’re making 50 to one 50 for your profit. Is that average? What’s average for, if someone goes out there and you teach people,

Speaker 1 (18:06):

The official number for me is like $91,000. But the granularity is that if I basically rehab the house, I make $150,000. If I wholesale it, then I make $80,000. So it’s generally how it works and everything. That’s kind of pretty much how it works.

Speaker 3 (18:33):

So if you rehab it, you squeeze more juice off. If you wholesale it, you’re still

Speaker 1 (18:38):

Sing it. So I’ll give you another example then of one, because the A RV, the after repair value, what did you sell it for? Plays a factor. If it’s a small house or a large house, you’re going to make more or less money. And I’m not going to say that I wish I lived in California and bought $800,000 houses for 200,000. I’m not saying I would move to California, but the A RV, the value of the home does make a difference. I’m in that $250,000, $350,000 price range in St. Louis, Missouri. But here’s a good example of one where basically I bought a house as a short sale for 270,000, and I sold it for three 70. So I made a hundred thousand dollars and I did absolutely nothing with it to it at all. I mean, I put some outlets in the basement because the kids stole ’em and wires were hanging out. But anyway, so I made a hundred thousand dollars on a wholesale right there, and that was in my Roth IRA. So I mean, it kind of ranges, but it’s a lot of money. If you’re doing the rehab, then you’re bringing the most value to society to the side.

Speaker 3 (19:43):

Yeah, that’s awesome. So I love this strategy of the short sale, buying it for the short sale. And then I love how you have the different exit strategies on the backend, just depending on the property, what you want to do with it. Now, I want you to touch a little bit, you did touch on it, the self-directed IRA and funding deals and that type of thing. How did you learn to utilize your retirement money basically to do this stuff?

Speaker 1 (20:12):

Well, it, it’s all about, how do I say this? I’ll try what’s happened to me in the past. I’ve got a coaching program, and in that coaching program, the student always wants to get their money back right away

(20:27):

Because I charge a very large fee to teach people how to do this on a one-on-one basis on it. And so here’s what happens, how it goes. So the first house they do during the year, let’s say they make $150,000 profit on the house, so the student’s really happy, right? Cool. I did this. I did what David said. I made $150,000. The second house that they do during the year, they make $150,000 profit. Now their wife is happy, right? Okay. Yeah. Right. Now, here’s what happens. The third house, they do the third house that year make $150,000. And what happens is now they’re both pissed at me, okay? Because they now crossed into the Biden zone where they’re making too much money and paying too much taxes. Now they’re mad at me, which is why I now teach people how to tax bracket structure their entities. So it’s all about when you’re making a lot of money, you don’t need a lot of money to live off of, so why should you be making it and paying taxes? Why don’t you do these deals in your retirement account? IRA vehicles instead of doing them in your LLC? And so for me, it was just making so much money that it’s like, my gosh, it makes me sick to pay these taxes, and the money’s just sitting there in the bank. I don’t have seven Lamborghinis. I don’t even have one.

(21:50):

And so it’s then, okay, who can we learn from? Teach us to do real estate in S corporations partnerships, Roth IRAs, 4 0 1 Ks. And so you start doing those deals. I mean, here’s kind of how it happened. For me personally, I asked my wife, how much money do you want to spend this year? And she would say, I want to spend this much, so I would do all my deals in my LLC to hit that number, and then the rest of the year I would do them all in retirement vehicles in a tax free or tax deferred manner. And so that’s kind of how that grew out of it. Now, sometimes when she wasn’t looking, I’d slip one in there too, in the Roth, but

Speaker 3 (22:35):

That’s great.

Speaker 1 (22:36):

Yeah. I mean, it’s just necessity. You got to get expert advice and from people like you that teach people how to handle their expenses and not end up at the end of the year where they didn’t set up a separate account to pay their taxes, it’s a horrible situation.

Speaker 3 (22:54):

Yeah, no, and I love that, that you’re not only teaching people how to make money and a lot of money, but then once you’re making enough that you can live off of what you should do with the rest, you pay as little in taxes as possible. So it’s like you’re teaching people, it sounds like, to make enough to live off of and then helping them build real wealth for the longterm as well too.

Speaker 1 (23:16):

Yeah, I mean, that’s the very first thing we do in the coaching program is the first two hours is what are your existing entities? Who do you have living at home that you can make, do work for you like an older child that hasn’t moved out yet, a sister nearby? And then are you doing these in entities that are meeting your long-term goals? Are you planning out your budget? Are you setting up accounts like you talk about and stuff? You’re the expert in that area, and so what you teach and what you’re an expert in is not what I would call a secret. It’s a way of doing it. It’s like, let’s do it. Right? Okay. And so that’s what you’re teaching is the right way to run a business, and so that’s important for everybody to do, including me.

Speaker 3 (24:09):

Your journey has been a pretty incredible one. Would you change anything that you’ve done on your journey, or would you take the same path?

Speaker 1 (24:17):

Well, I don’t know. My wife and I had an argument. My wife and I had an argument once because whenever I’d buy a short sale, she’d always come over to the house and then she would help say, we’re going to do this to it and do this in the rehab, and that was all great. And one time we went to this house and she said, we’re going to move into it. And I said, no, no, no. This is a job. It’s business. This is a house. We’re going to fix it up. We’re going to sell it. We’re going to put food on the table. She’s like, no, no, no, no. We’re moving into it. I’m like, no, no, no, no, we’re not. And so anyway, I probably would’ve done that one a little bit differently.

(24:53):

She actually said the D word. Oh my gosh. So anyway, we ended up compromising. What happened was I was basically buying it for like 200,000 and it was going to be worth like 600, like, holy cow, that’s a lot of taxes anywhere and stuff. What ended up happening was we moved in, but she agreed that in two years we’d sell it and get section 1 21 of the IRS code, which is let’s a married couple get $500,000 tax free. So now I am happy because this huge profit’s going to be completely tax free and in our pocket, in our hand, not in an IRA. So that’s going to satisfy her for a long time, and I can do a lot of deals in my IRAs anyway. It got to be, I probably would’ve done it differently now, currently still living in this house eight years later.

Speaker 3 (25:47):

I was going to say, do you still live there? She won. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (25:54):

But no, I don’t know. I think probably what I would’ve done different is I probably would’ve sought expert help in the education field. Earlier, I was very much of a loner and I bought a lot of materials, a lot of materials, but I didn’t go towards the coaching side as much as I should have today. You can get coaches everywhere, okay. I mean, goodness sakes, you guys can do fractionalized CFOs, okay, yeah, that didn’t exist back then. There weren’t a lot of coaches and mentors back then. You could buy courses and CDs, but there wasn’t a lot of what I call coaching back then, and I regret that if I would’ve got with a coach quicker, because I’m seeing it with my students now. They’re jumping in literally 14 years into my experience level. I think that I would’ve probably taken advantage of that

Speaker 3 (26:51):

Earlier, and that’s a lot of people’s answer is, I wish I would’ve had this experience faster, wish I would’ve paid for it, or would’ve had something in my life like that, and talk about that. How do people get ahold of you if they’re like, okay, this sounds amazing. I want to see if I could work with David. I want to do short sales as a part of my buying process. How would they get ahold of you?

Speaker 1 (27:12):

A couple of ways. I got a pretty cool website called the david randolph.com. Now, it’s interesting. David randolph.com was taken and I was heartbroken. It’s like, oh, you got to be kidding me. No way. And then some people said to me, wait a minute. Wait, aren’t you the David Randolph? I’m like, yeah, I’m the, yeah, GoDaddy, GoDaddy. Give me the david randolph.com, and so they can go there and get a lot of information. They could actually, I started doing this free two hour workshop. If they text the word Ws workshop ws to my cell phone, they can get onto a completely free two hour short sale training workshop and learn all about it. Not selling anything on it costs nothing to get in, nothing to get out. Literally just doing a market update for why the banks are dumping houses and teaching you more definition of what a short sale really is. So Ws to 6 3, 6 6, 8, 5, 2, 9, 9 0. Just text ws to that phone number. That’ll give you a website to put your email in, and we’ll get you in on the next free workshop.

Speaker 3 (28:24):

Awesome. Well, that’s very cool. That’s good stuff. I know people will be wondering, okay, how in the world do I make these types of profits? Or even if they’re already down the road on the real estate investing journey. This has been awesome. This has been great information. I’ve learned a lot, and if you’re out there and you’re wanting to get into that, go to the david randolph.com and then or back it up and text ws to that phone number as well too. Then from here, if you’re also being like, okay, I want to make a lot of money and I am making money, but where in the world is it all going? Just like David had said, we run the other side. If you’re going to make the money, you might as well keep it, so go to simple cfo.com. That’s where we can at least help you see if we are a good fit or we could pin you to someone in our network to help you keep more of what you’re making. Thank you, David, for being on the show, for providing a lot of value to the listeners. I’m excited. I know you help. When people come in, they get help, then they do deals and they do big deals, so I’m excited to see if people go and get some help from you. Thanks for being on the show and sharing your wisdom today.

Speaker 1 (29:29):

Yeah, I appreciate what you do. Thank you very much, David.

Speaker 3 (29:31):

Yeah, and then if you’re listening to this, remember, make Profit a Habit in your business.

Speaker 2 (29:37):

This episode of the Profit First for REI podcast is over, but there are plenty more where that came from. Are you ready to learn how David and his team can help implement the Profit First system in your business? Schedule a discovery call@simplecfo.com right now. We’ll see you next time on The Profit First for REI podcast with David Richter.

Title: “Profit First Strategies with Jay Conner: The Power of Private Money”

Episode: 242

There are 15 reasons to love about borrowing private money over traditional money. One of them is making your own rules for your private money.

In this episode of Profit First for REI podcast, Jay Conner, a nationally renowned real estate investor and the king of private money. He talks about how private money works.

Jay helps you get your money from private lenders and will share with you the mindset that will get you money in the door without you ever having to worry about it.

Listen and enjoy the show!

Key Takeaways:

[01:01] Introducing Jay Conner

[05:00] Introduction to private money

[08:30] The Great News Phone Call

[11:23] Why don’t you use your own money?

[13:18] Maintaining relationships with private lenders

[15:40] Private money vs traditional money

[22:05] Things that make them want to recommend you

[25:18] Advice for real estate investors

[29:01] Connect with Jay Conner

Quotes:

[07:34] “If you are talking about private money and raising private money with an individual and you got a deal for them to fund, you already sounded desperate.”

[12:07] “If you want to scale your business, private money is the way to go.”

[16:05] “In this world of private money, we make the rules. We set the interest rate, we sent the length and all of that.”

Connect with Jay:

Website: https://www.jayconner.com/book-details/

Tired of living deal to deal?

Transcript:

Speaker 1 (00:00):

I got 15 reasons I love private money over traditional money. I won’t share all 15, but the biggest one is it puts you in the driver’s seat. The traditional way to borrow money is you go to the bank and get on your hands and knees and you’re begging and chasing. Well, they are making the rules right? Like the lender is making the rules. But in this world of private money, we make the rules, we set the interest rate, we set the length of the note and all that.

Speaker 2 (00:34):

Speaker 3 (01:01):

We have Jay Connor back on the podcast. I love Jay Connor. He helps you get your money, the money from private lenders and that whole framework and process, but he does it from a passion and a place of heart. And servant Teachership. I feel like he goes out there and is a servant teacher of how private money works. Listen to this episode. He gives the magic question he tells about desperation and private lending, and I thought his perspective was so good, and then ultimately the mindset that will get you money in the door without you ever having to worry about it. So listen to this episode. Can’t wait for you to get value from it. Thank you for being a listener of the Profit First. RII podcast. Have a great episode. Hey, here’s the profit first RI podcast. Really excited to have Jay Connor back because he’s the came of private money. And this is where I love to go into this topic because I don’t care what kind of business you’re in, you probably need help with this, but especially if you’re in the real estate world, this comes up all the time at every event I’m at with every conversation I have. So we’re having the cane here talk about private money today. So Jay, thanks for being on the show.

Speaker 1 (02:07):

Hey David, thank you so much for having me come on here to talk about my most favorite topic. Of course, that being private money. And why is that? Because private money’s had a bigger impact on our real estate investing business than any other strategy that we’ve implemented in our business.

Speaker 3 (02:24):

Why did you go down that road though? I mean, you teach this all the time. You’re helping a ton of people, like anyone I’ve ever talked to that works with you is like he taught me how to do and I got money and it actually works. So I mean, how did you even go down that road where it made a difference on you and then you wanted to get it to others?

Speaker 1 (02:43):

Well, I actually backed into it. I didn’t do it on purpose. So here’s what happened. So my wife, Carol, joy and I, we’ve been investing in real estate, single family houses, other real estate full time here in eastern North Carolina since 2003. And here’s what happened. From 2003 until 2009, David, all I knew to do in my real estate investing business was rely on the local banks to fund my deals. I mean, all I knew to do was go to the bank, get on my hands and knees, put my hand underneath my chin, raise my skirt up so they could look at all my personal financial statements and stuff and actually beg to get my deals funded. That’s all I knew to do. And so I had a big wake up call in January of 2009 after being in this business here in Eastern North Carolina. I called up my banker.

(03:38):

I told him about these two deals I had under contract in Newport, these two single family houses. And David, I learned like that over the telephone that my line of credit had been shut down with no notice. My banker, his name was Steve, and the bank was bb and t at the time. I said, Steve, what in the world are you telling me? My line of credit is shut down. I got two deals under contract. You gave me no notice. Why is the bank closing my line of credit? He said, Jay, don’t. There’s a global financial crisis going on right now. I said, no, but now you just gave me a global financial crisis. Financial crisis, yeah, I ain’t got no way to fund my deals. And I got ’em under contract. So I hung up the phone and here’s what happened, David. I sat here and I asked myself a very important question.

(04:27):

And so I’m going to share this question with your audience right now. This question I’m going to share with you will help you solve any problem you’ve got. I don’t care if it’s business, financial, career, health, relationships. I don’t care what your problem is. By the way, David, these people going around and saying, any problem, you got some opportunity I want to throw up. I didn’t have no opportunity. I had a problem of not funding my deal. So here’s the question I asked myself. The question I asked myself was, Jay, who do you know that can help you with your problem? And when I asked myself that question, I immediately thought of my good friend Jeff, who lived in Greensboro, North Carolina at the time, and he was investing in real estate. And so I called him up and I told him what happened. And he said, well, Jay, welcome to the club.

(05:18):

I said, what club? He said, the club of the bank shutting you down and losing amount of credit. They shut me down last week. I said, well, how are you funding your deals, Jeff? He says, well, have you ever heard of private money? And I hadn’t. So Jeff told me about private money. He told me about self-directed IRAs and how people can use their retirement accounts and funds that they currently have and move them over to a self-directed IRA company and then loan that money out to us real estate investors, either tax deferred or tax free depending on the type of account they’ve got. Well, that just opened up my whole world. I’d never heard of that. And so what did I do? How did raise $2,150,000 in less than 90 days after being cut off from the bank? Well, here’s what I did, and here’s the secret sauce I put on my teacher hat.

(06:10):

So I put on my teacher cap, which is my private money teacher cap, and I just started teaching people in my own network what private money is, how they can earn high rates of returns safely and securely. And what’s interesting, Carol, joy and I, we got 47 private lenders right now. Not one of them had ever heard of private money and private lending. Not one of them had ever heard of self-directed IRA companies and what a third party custodian is. That’s important by the way, to establish a relationship with a self-directed IRA company because over half of my private lenders are using their retirement funds. And if I didn’t have that relationship to introduce them to move their retirement funds over, I’d be missing out on over half of my private money. So how did I go about raising all this money when I was cut off from the banks?

(07:02):

I led with a servant’s heart. I led with education. And here’s a really, really important point. I separated the activity. I separated the conversations of telling people what private money is and how they can earn high rates of return safely and securely and having a deal for them to fund. You see, desperation has got a smell to it. And when you talk about is that not true, David? Yeah, very true. So if you’re talking about private money and raising private money with an individual and you got a deal for them to fund, you’re already sounding desperate and you’re not even trying to sound desperate. So we don’t talk about deals and when we’re first exposing somebody to how they can earn high rates of return, we talk about private money. So how do we separate those conversations? Well, when someone has told me that they’ve got, let’s say they’ve got $150,000 they want to invest and get high rates of return conservatively, I’ll say, great, I’ll put your money to work for you just as soon as possible.

(08:11):

I don’t talk about a deal upfront. If they’ve got retirement funds that they want to get higher rates of return on, I’ll introduce ’em to the self-directed IRA company that I recommend. They’ll get their funds moved over. And so here’s what happens and here’s the magic sauce, David, I give ’em and I call ’em up with what I call the great news phone call. What in the world is the great news phone call? Well, the great news phone call is not a pitch. I’ve never pitched a deal in my life ever since I started raising private money in 2009. I pick up my handset with my cord attached to it here in North Carolina and I call some of your, don’t even know what that is. And let’s say, David, let’s say you’re one of my private lenders. So I’ll put my phone right up here and you’ll answer the phone and we’ll have a little chitchat and I’ll say, Dave, I got great news for you.

(09:06):

I can now put your money to work. I got a house in Newport with an after repaired value of $200,000. The funding requires 150. Closing is next Tuesday. You’ll need to have your funds wired to my real estate attorney next Monday. I’m going to have my real estate attorney email you the wiring instructions end of conversation. Notice I didn’t ask If you want to fund the deal, of course you want to fund the deal. You’ve been waiting for the phone call. I’ve told you the program. I’ve taught you the program, you know what kind of rate you get, what the maximum loan to value is, the program that I’ve taught you. And so now you’re waiting for the good news phone call, which I just gave you. And in addition to that, if you as my private lender, if you’ve moved your retirement funds over to a self-directed IRA company, you ain’t earning any money until I put your money to work.

(10:04):

You moved it at my recommendation. Now I’m ethically bound to put your money to work. You ain’t earning any money until you actually put her to work. So again, we separate conversations, we leave with a servant’s heart, we educate, and by the way, David, these people going around saying don’t just get the deal under contract. The money is show up. I want to throw up where is the money going to show up? Is it just going to rain out of clouds or something? No, get the money lined up and you can get it lined up fast. Just like me. There’s always going to be deals.

Speaker 3 (10:38):

Yeah. Oh man, that’s really good stuff. I love how you went down that road and it helped you personally. Now you’re just teaching a lot of people. I love that magic question. Who do you know that can help me with my problem? It’s that who, it’s not always the how. It’s the who did I know, and in that point it really helped you. I also run into a lot of times, I don’t know if you see this, where there’s someone who’s like, I could save a couple interest points if I just use my own money versus a private lender’s funds. What are your thoughts on that of always taking down your own deals versus going out there and putting the work into getting a private lender?

Speaker 1 (11:17):

Sure, I get that question all the time. They say, Jay, you making all that money? Why don’t you use your own money to invest in real estate? Why are you still borrowing private money? Well, here’s the answer. If you’re just going to do one deal, that’s a great use of your money. That’s a fantastic use of your money. But do you want to scale your business? I mean, right now we’ve got seven different projects going on, single family houses simultaneously. Well, I don’t want my money buried in seven houses or projects simultaneously, which here in our local market can easily be over 3 million with the prices of our homes. So if you want to scale and really, I mean most people have got a bottom of the bucket in their checkbook. So if you want to scale your business, then private money is the way to go. Another answer to that question is, do I want to pay myself 8% or do I want to use my money for something else,

Speaker 3 (12:22):

Right? Yep.

Speaker 1 (12:24):

So that’s a couple of answers to why I use private lending and why I’m still using 47 private lenders,

Speaker 3 (12:33):

Which is great. I love what you said. If you want to scale, it can run out of cash real quick. If you just keep using your own money where a lot of people have to choose between, okay, paying some percentage points or sleeping at night, and it’s like, I think I like your option a whole lot better, especially if you’re looking to grow. But I like how you said that one deal. That’s okay, but if you are looking to be a real estate investor, this is something you’re going to have to go down that road. Now, last time I asked you some questions about the private lending process. I don’t think I asked this one though, is how do you maintain a relationship with that many private lenders? You’ve got 47 people in your network that you call up with the good news call. So is it like how do you maintain a relationship with all those people?

Speaker 1 (13:22):

I mail ’em checks.

Speaker 3 (13:25):

I love that. That’s a great answer. Oh man. No better way to keep a relationship there.

Speaker 1 (13:33):

I mean, they love getting money in the mail, right? Yeah. They love mailbox money, so I mail ’em checks.

Speaker 3 (13:41):

So you mail ’em checks. So you’ve built a good enough business where you can keep 47 lenders busy and their money active.

Speaker 1 (13:50):

Well, to be totally transparent, I mean, it is a juggling act to tell you the truth. I mean, there’s more money than there is deals.

Speaker 3 (14:00):

Yep.

Speaker 1 (14:01):

There’s more money than there is deals. And so we got 47 private lenders. Some of them have got $30,000 with us, some of ’em have got a million dollars with us. I can’t buy a house for 30,000, but I can use 30,000 for rehab money. You can use private money, borrow private money in a junior position, you’ve got to disclose that. But I can put private money in a junior lien. But what comes into play there is what we call total loan to value. So I’m not going to be borrowing more than 75% of the after repaired value. I didn’t say the purchase price 75% of the after repaired value. But let’s say back to that example that we just talked about, David, where if I’ve got a after repaired value on a home of 200,000 for easy figuring, I can borrow up to 150,000. That’s 75% of the after repaired value. But if I buy it for a hundred thousand, which I do all the time, 50% of the after repaired value, I can have a private lender in first position at a hundred grand. I could have another private lender in second position at 50 grand. So add a hundred to the 50, now one 50 divided by 200,000 after repaired value, I got a total loan to value of still 75%.

Speaker 3 (15:27):

Yeah, I love that. And it seems like private money gives you flexibility and

Speaker 1 (15:32):

Options. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (15:34):

Yeah, that makes sense. A hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (15:37):

Oh, absolutely. Flexibility is where it’s all at. I got 15 reasons. I love private money over traditional money. I won’t share all 15, but the biggest one is it puts you in the driver’s seat. The traditional way to borrow money is you go to the bank and get on your hands and knees and you’re begging and chasing, well, they are making the rules, right? The lender is making the rules. But in this world of private money, we make the rules, we set the interest rate, we set the length of the node and all that.

Speaker 3 (16:14):

I love that. Flexibility is the ultimate play in real estate. You want to have flexibility and you want to be able to have that. So I love what you teach. Who is the person that you’re trying to teach out there? Is it the person that’s done one deal a thousand deals? Who are you trying to help the most with your business?

Speaker 1 (16:33):

Yeah, that’s interesting. At my live events, which is called the private money conference, and my live events, we have about 60% or so have already done deals. They’ve already done deals. They want to scale their business. They are real estate investors wanting to scale their business, and about 40% are looking to get their very first deal. So I’m helping everybody. I mean Stu and Harriet Baldwin from New York State, they enrolled and joined my mastermind membership community and they already had a portfolio of a hundred houses. They’d already raised over $2 million in private money, but they wanted to see how I went about it. Well, just one webinar that I recorded with them brought in 1.2 million in additional private private money. So I’ve worked with real estate investors that are brand new and those that are also seasoned to help them get more private money ready to go for their business.

Speaker 3 (17:33):

I love that. It sounds like a lot of people out there need private money, and even if you’re just getting started, if you don’t have the funds to do that first deal, like you mentioned, you do that first deal, that one deal at a time, it might be okay, but this sounds like a great spot where if you’re getting into it or if you’ve got lots of stuff going on, this could be another way to make sure your company can keep running without what you ran into with the banks back in 2007, eight or oh nine. Would you say that’s true as well?

Speaker 1 (18:04):

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I’ve met very, very few people. In fact, I can’t even think of one. I haven’t met any real estate investor that says, I got enough money.

Speaker 3 (18:20):

Yeah, me either.

Speaker 1 (18:22):

I can’t use any more private money. However, David, you are looking at one right now. I got about almost $2 million right now, what I call sitting on the shelf waiting to be deployed. And I tell you what, I’ve had new private lenders come into my world that want to invest and just to prove to them that I can perform. I’ll take the new private lender’s money and pay off a current private lender, refinance the deal so I can get their money to work for ’em, right?

Speaker 3 (18:53):

Ah, yep, that makes sense. I like that. As you grow and scale, you might run into that issue and you make one lender a little bit happy. I mean, at least they’re getting paid off, but then they probably come back to you and say, I want you to put my money to work again. Do you have that come up a lot?

Speaker 1 (19:12):

Quite frankly, when I pay ’em off, they’re not happy.

Speaker 3 (19:17):

That’s why I said just a little happy, maybe a little bit.

Speaker 1 (19:20):

But when I pay ’em off, they’re not making any money on that money. In fact, with a new private lender, I’ll get ready to pay ’em off cashing out on a deal and I’ll call ’em up and say, Hey, just want you to know that you’re going to have a check coming in the mail from a real estate attorney’s trust account. We’re paying off this house. And they’ll say, Jay, can’t you just keep the money? And I’ll go, no, I can’t keep the money unless I’ve got your money secured by a property because we do not borrow unsecured funds. Now, here’s maybe a little advanced strategy for some folks, but I do substitutions of collateral or loan modifications all the time. If it’s a small amount of money that a private lender’s invested 30, 40, $50,000, and we use it for rehabbing a property. So when I’ve got another property I’m getting ready to start on, I’ll substitute the collateral and keep that 30 or $50,000 note in play. So they keep earning money on that money, but we will substitute the collateral just to a different project that we’re moving to.

Speaker 3 (20:25):

That’s awesome. So then sounds like you have a good problem. It’s like, I want that. Well, I think a lot of real estate investors would rather the problem, I have too much money versus I’ve got these deals and I can’t fund them. So I really like how you teach people that and where it could snowball into this, where it’s like, I’ve got 47 private lenders, I’ve got to go out there and get the deals for ’em. Absolutely. And I really like that. And

Speaker 1 (20:50):

For goodness sakes, you don’t start out with 47 private lenders. I started out with one, right? I started out with one and then that quickly became two and three and four and five because private lenders tell other people what’s going on. So I haven’t actively attracted private money for years because our current private lenders just keep sending us people. In fact, day before yesterday, day before yesterday, I got a phone call from the mother of a good friend of mine, his name’s Craig, lives in Newburg, North Carolina. Craig had told his mother about this investment thing that I got going on and she had never heard of it, which is really funny. I’ve been doing it now private money since 2009. So she calls me up and she says, Hey, my son’s been telling me about this investment thing you got going on. Tell me about it. So word of mouth gets around very, very quickly when you start doing business with private lenders the way I do.

Speaker 3 (21:53):

Yeah, I like that a lot. So in order to get people to talk like that, what are the biggest things that you do for your current private lenders that makes them want to recommend you?

Speaker 1 (22:07):

Well pay ’em on time.

Speaker 3 (22:08):

There you go. That’s a big one. Sounds like that would be a really great place to start.

Speaker 1 (22:12):

Pay ’em on time. But I also have three times a year I put on a party for our private lenders at the Dunes Club. So we have three times a year a VIP reception over at the Dunes Club on the beach, and it’s just an evening of private lenders getting together and we have a good old time and I feed them and give them all the soft shell crabs they want, and I tell ’em to bring their friends with them.

Speaker 3 (22:42):

Yeah, that’s awesome. So number one though, that anyone can do at any stage is pay people on time. So actually pay, would you say, what about communication? I hear that come up sometimes too. How do you do a good job on the communication with your private lenders as well?

Speaker 1 (23:03):

Well, it must be good enough. They never go away,

Speaker 3 (23:06):

Right? Yeah, that’s the big things I hear.

Speaker 1 (23:10):

Here’s one thing I have not delegated as far as communication. I personally, I mean my relationships with my private lenders are very, very important. So I personally pick up the phone, pick up the phone, and call my private lenders when I have got a deal for them to fund. I do not delegate that out. I could

(23:37):

Delegate that out, but I don’t, when I got a deal for them to fund, I’m the person on the phone keeping that relationship When I’m getting ready to pay them off. I don’t have a check just show up in the mail. Of course they got to sign a payoff instruction letter if a different closing agent is closing it for a buyer. But before any of that happens, I personally call ’em up and I tell ’em that we’ve got that property sold. We’re getting ready to pay you off. Or I’ll call ’em up and I’ll say, Hey, we’re getting ready to pay this property off, but I will keep your note open so you can keep earning money. I’m just going to substitute the collateral. We got some documents we’re going to email to you for you to sign and send back the communication. I’m personally involved in putting their money to work and letting them know when we’re cashing out and where they are on the deal.

Speaker 3 (24:31):

That’s awesome. Then since it’s the profit first I podcast here, I love this concept of the private money because you need your cash in your accounts. So to be able to run your business, do those things, and then setting up a separate account just for your private money lenders, so it makes it easier to do what Jay just told you to pay them back, to pay them back on time to be in good communication with them. So now this has been really good. Do you have any other advice before I ask you? How could they work with you? How can they get in touch with, because I know this is something that is needed desperately, that I send people your way all the time. I know I trust you to help people, but any other last minute advice here that you would give to the real estate investors listening to the podcast?

Speaker 1 (25:18):

Sure. I appreciate you asking that question. It’s going to be very hard to own a lot of real estate

(25:26):

Until you own the real estate between your ears. So what do I mean by that? People ask me, how do I start? How do I start raising money? I can tell you how you start raising private money. You get your heart right, you get your mindset right. So what do I mean by that? Well, what do you do? You lead with a servant’s heart, you lead with education, you put your private lender money hat on, you private lender, teacher hat on, and you leave with education, don’t pitch deals, and you really, really are concerned about the other person and realize, part of this mindset is realize you’ve got an opportunity to change people’s lives, right?

Speaker 3 (26:11):

That’s so good.

Speaker 1 (26:13):

We’ve got countless people that are particularly in their retirement years, that have thanked me and Carol Joy for making a difference in their retirement years to where they can, I mean, they don’t want to touch their principal. They want to live off of their principal investment. So they’ve been able to travel, go see grandkids, do all this stuff that they couldn’t do otherwise until they got involved in our program. So just know that you’ve got a way to really make an impact on other people’s lives. And lemme tell you another part of mindset. It ain’t about reaping. It’s not about reaping. It’s all about sowing. It’s all about sowing. I can’t be reaping all that private money and deals until I have sown and given and led with value first. So how you sow is how you’re going to reap.

Speaker 3 (27:08):

Yeah. Oh man, this is so good. I’m glad I asked that question because I hear the passion in your voice and I hear that you really care about the people you work with, the people that have private money lenders out there, you care about that relationship. I love what you said. Get your heart right, get your head right. I also think, like you said too, that if they don’t have that desperation has a smell. So if you’re out there, you’re desperate and you’re just going out there, then you won’t have people like you have that want to keep coming back, that want to continuously invest in you. So that was, I think, the best advice that you could give right there. Get it between your ears and get your heart right. I absolutely love that. And just to recap too, I love your magic question.

(27:55):

Who do you know that can help me with my problem? Then one day you’re going to wake up and you’re going to be like Jay, and you’re going to be helping other people with their problem. I’ve got money. I want to put it somewhere, and you’re the able to get them to where they can be. Desperation has a smell. I love that. And then honestly, I love that pivot. You are like, it’s not about the reaping, it’s not about the interest that I’m making or the profit I’m making for the deal. It’s more about sowing those seeds and ultimately you’re changing lives. That’s why you get private money, and it’s like that interest that you’re paying them is twofold. It’s like you get to sleep at night, you’re not using all your money and you’re getting to help someone else get a return that they wouldn’t be able to get anywhere else or in someone that they trust as well too, and that’s a little bit more tangible than the stock markets or all this other Bitcoin, some of that stuff that’s floating around out there. So this has been awesome. So how do people then, Jay, take that next step with you? Do you have a book? You talked about an event. What can people do?

Speaker 1 (29:01):

Absolutely. Well for your audience, David, I’ve got two gifts. First of all, I finished writing my book Where to Get the Money. Now, this is not a ebook. This is a book book that we actually send in the mail Autographic where to get the money. Now the subtitle is How and Where to Get Money for Your Real Estate Deals Without Relying on Hard Money Lenders or Traditional Lenders. It’ll walk you through step by step how to get all the private money you would want. Very, very easy to read. It’s $20 on Amazon, but you can get it for free. Being David’s audience, just cover shipping. You can go to www dot j Connor, J-A-Y-C-O-N-N-E r.com/book. So I’m an er, not an or. So that’s j Connor, J-A-Y-C-O-N-N-E r.com/book, and we’ll three day priority mail it out to you. Now, in addition to that, I’ve got an upcoming $3,000 per ticket live event right around the corner. But for your audience, Dave, I’m going to let everybody come for free with a measly $97 registration fee. This private money event. You can check it out at www.theprivatemoneyconference.com. The private money conference.com. That’s coming up right around the corner in June. Get on over there. Registrations are open, and I’d love to meet you in person at the private money conference.com.

Speaker 3 (30:31):

Awesome. I’m excited about that too. I love what you’re doing and you’re solving a big need that we hear all the time. Just like all people always needing to sharpen their acts when it comes to private money, you graciously have also invited me there to speak about Profit First. So I’m excited to get to tell people about that so they can get more private money and be more confident and not be desperate when they go and ask for people. So I’m really excited about that as well. So make sure we’re going to put those links there, but make sure either get his book or go to that event. I cannot endorse Jay Moore because I know how many people he helps, but then he also has the heart. You heard it right here. That’s how he wants to help you too. It’s very much a heart and a mission and a passion for him.

(31:13):

So Jay, thank you for coming on, for sharing your wisdom, your knowledge today. If you are listening to this episode and you feel stuck like, what the heck is going on? Where is my money? I don’t know what to do. I’m a little bit nervous to go out there and get private money. I can’t keep my own house in order. That’s where you could go to simple cfo.com where we can help you walk you through that process. We’ll link you up to Jay too. If you need private money or need to learn about private money, this is who we recommend. I recommend Jay to many people, so make sure that if you need that help you go to simple cfo.com. But Jay, again, thank you for being on the show and sharing your wisdom here today.

Speaker 1 (31:51):

David, thank you so much for having me. God bless you.

Speaker 2 (31:54):