Building a Legacy of Generational Wealth With Josh Cantwell

Episode 101: Building a Legacy of Generational Wealth With Josh Cantwell

The Profit First REI Podcast

August 4, 2022

David Richter


Achieving entrepreneurial freedom has a price and also takes time. But the good thing is, it’s not impossible!

Our guest Josh Cantwell can attest to that. Today we dive into the finer details of how important the Profit First mindset is in your business, as well as how to use it so you can get the right framework in place to maximize your profitability.

Key Takeaways:

[1:54] What got him started in real estate?

[4:28] What early lessons did he learn about money, and how is it compared to what he’s learned about money today?

[9:00] What lessons about money does he want to pass down to his children?

[17:49] How does he use Profit First in apartment investing?

[27:43] Get into the psychological habit of making sure you’re taken care of , so you’ve got the right mindset and you’re not hating your business at a different level.


[4:43] “You realize that when you sign up as an entrepreneur, you sign up for personal freedom.”

[11:03] “One of the lessons I’ve learzed is that in order to be a high earner, you must have excellent time management skills.”


Free Land Ventures-www.freelandventures.com

Tired of living deal to deal? 

If you are a real estate investor or business owner who is tired of living deal to deal, and want to double your profits, head over here to book your no-obligation discovery call with me. Either myself or someone from my team will hop on a short call with you to get clear on your business goals, remove any obstacles holding you back, and map out a game plan to help you finally start keeping more of the money you work so hard to make. – David 


Josh Cantwell:

When we get to the point of the building being stabilized, it could be two years from now, four years from now. Then we do a big refinance. We pay all the investors off, we pay them back and now it’s all profit. <Laugh>

David Richter:


Josh Cantwell:

Yeah. It’s all profit.


Welcome to the Profit First REI podcast where real estate investors, master financial management, eradicate entrepreneurial poverty, and learn to be profitable from day one. Now for your host, David Richter

David Richter:

Everyone. It’s David Richter here again on the Profit First REI podcast have Josh Cantwell today, which is, I am super excited about this because he does apartment investing and uses Profit First. So, and he’s gonna tell you, because there’s definitely a different aspect to the apartment investing and using Profit First. And you’re gonna hear about limited partnerships and how the cashflow plays into that, how it plays into when they’re buying, when they’re selling, when they’re refinancing, how the Profit First system and when he uses it and how he manages it, cash that way. And I think this is gonna be an awesome episode. Josh, thank you so much for coming on today.

Josh Cantwell:

Yeah, David, absolutely. I’ve been looking forward to this, you know, the Profit First books and the series of various books from Michael. It’s been phenomenal. I’ve, I’ve either done the audio books or most of the books. I’m a really slow reader, so it’s mostly audio books. Yeah. But no, I love his stuff. I love your book and I, you know, I’m super excited and honored to be here.

David Richter:

Awesome. Well, I really appreciate that. So let’s just, let’s start where everyone starts. How got what got you started in real estate?

Josh Cantwell:

Yeah, look, I, I probably have a little bit different story than a lot of people. I certainly fell into it. Like a lot of people. Do you kind of hear about it from one way or another? What I did was when I was in college, I was very lucky to have a father who was an entrepreneur. My dad built a business. He filed for bankruptcy when he was in sixth, when I was in sixth grade. And then by the time I was in college, just within six or eight years later, my dad was a multimillionaire. So he went from nothing. So I, I was like, wow, what, you know what happened? And he built a business. He built an employee benefits company. So I jumped into employee benefits. I jumped into actually financial planning in early twenties. That’s one of the things that’s led me David, to be so good at raising money is I was around money mm-hmm <affirmative> in my early twenties, right after school.

Josh Cantwell:

But long story short, those clients that I had that had stocks, bonds, mutual funds, IRAs, life insurance policies, estate planning. I noticed that a lot of them had their biggest dollars. Their biggest assets were not in the stock markets. They were in real estate. They owned apartment buildings. They owned rental properties. They owned strip centers. They leased them out to, you know, restaurants and things like that. And I took notice. So I started going to boot camps. Like a lot of people I got into real estate for the cash flow, but I, I started with wholesaling and I started with flipping like a lot of folks do, you know, fast forward 15 years. Now we own 3,700 units of apartments. We’ve raised and deployed about 80 million and we have about 40 million deployed right now. And I’ve got 451 units under contract to buy by the end of the year. So we’re adding to the portfolio as we go. Yeah. So very meager start. But you know, there’s a lot of lessons out there. Very fortunate David to have a, a dad that was an entrepreneur, the big, big, big advantage coming outta the gate.

David Richter:

Yeah, no kidding. Cuz a lot of the people that we talked to either they’ve had that advantage and they had someone that went through that or they didn’t, and it’s like, it’s just, it’s fun to watch people how they springboarded into real estate and just the whole entrepreneurship type board. So that is awesome. I love that. I hope to provide that. I have a four year old daughter, so I’m hoping one day she’s able to say that on some podcast that I’m really glad that my dad went into this. And so I really love what she’s

Josh Cantwell:

Always home.

David Richter:

Yeah, right?

Josh Cantwell:

Yeah. That whole point.

David Richter:

Right? Exactly. It’s just, it is, it’s so funny having a four year old and like, you know what, the kid, you have no idea like that. It’s not normal for me not to be home like fitting a typical, you know, nuclear family or whatnot because my dad went off to work every single day and stuff and she’s like coming and ask, can you, can you play with me? You know, like in the afternoon. So I love that. Love that. What you what you learned from your father, because one of the big questions I asked and I’m gonna ask you the same things is what early lessons did you learn about money and how does that compare to how you think about money today?

Josh Cantwell:

Oh yeah. The fantastic question. Look, I, I, the first lesson for sure, David is I realized that building a business, like taking the chance to be an entrepreneur, you realize that when you sign up to be an entrepreneur, you’ve signed up for personal freedom. That’s really what you’re trying to do. Yeah. Personal freedom. It’s not about the money. The money will come. It’s not about the Ferrari and the Lambos and all that crap. Like nobody cares. Right. What we care about is personal freedom. And so when I got to see my dad take lots of time off at certain times of the year and then other times totally bust his ass and work late. You know, I got to see how he got to manage that schedule. Right. I also got to see going from sixth grade bankruptcy, we lived in a very small, like 1400 square feet house with a half finished basement you know, paneling in the basement, that type of thing.

Josh Cantwell:

And all of a sudden about  the time I was in college. My dad bought like a 4,000 square foot house and he had a third car and he had a condo in Hilton Head, and I’m like, whoa, like what happened? I remember we walked into the house that they were buying, right. Because me and my brothers were so used to this little tiny ranch we lived in, when we walked into the house, they were buying, we all kind of looked at each other like, can we afford this? Cause my dad was also very quiet, so, okay. One of the things about money, I realized one was that watching him in business was the, the multiplication, the multiplicity of business and owning the company, whether it’s apartment units, whether it’s eCommerce. In my dad’s case, it was employee benefits. He was able to grow a business substantially and then use that.

Josh Cantwell:

And it grew very quickly versus just working like a W2 job. It’s very hard to have that exponential growth in a W2 job. Secondly, my dad was very quiet about his wealth. He, my dad was very quiet about the money that he was making. We had no idea. My dad still shopped at thrift stores. He would buy suits secondhand, even though he could afford thousand dollars suits, he would, we was so proud to buy a $50 suit second hand and have that tailored to fit him. He would come home from work and be like, yeah, I stopped at thrift store. Second hand, guess how much this suit was? I’m like, I don’t know, 500 bucks. He’s like, dude, I bought this suit for $28. <Laugh> so that was amazing. Right. But also at a young age, when I got into financial planning, I also realized that everybody has the same goal, David, which is just to save and invest wisely.

Josh Cantwell:

Right? People don’t need to hit flyers. I understand people betting on crypto and all the up and down with crypto and the big returns I get it. But really wealth is built long and slow. It’s built long and slow. That’s why I love apartments. And that’s not just making wealth David, but keeping it right. If you make wealth really quickly, I get it. There’s the Facebooks of the world, the Instagrams of the world, the Snapchats of the world make money practically overnight. But for most of us, the goal is not just to make it, but to keep it. And I think it’s actually easier to keep it if you make it slowly, right. Build methodically. Instead of looking for this massive growth all at one time is to grow. When I always say grow it methodically. I’m not talking about over 40 years, I’m talking about maybe over five or 10 years, that wealth is hard to rip away. Right? So those are some of the lessons I learned for sure. Watching him.

David Richter:

Oh man, I love that because I feel like that’s the, the difference between principles and just like the next new fad, it’s the principles of marketing will take you further than the next new Facebook thing or the next new Instagram, you know, like just always on the, the trend it’s are, do you have the principles down? Same thing with money. I love what you said there. It’s not 40 years, but it could be five 10 of building something that’s real. And that lasts a lifetime. I think, I think if you stop listening to the podcast right here and just said, you know, that’s what I need to do. I need to build my five year plan of what I’m going to do long term. You could be, you could go very, very far for a long time if building that foundation. That was incredible. So thank you. Yeah. I love that. So then do you now, Josh, do you have children right now? Or I do

Josh Cantwell:

A sixth grader and a fourth grader girl, girl. Yeah.

David Richter:

So I love that because another thing that I like to ask too, is what lessons do you wanna pass down to your children to the next generation about money and like what you’ve learned so far. And it’s, it’s definitely selfish since I have a four year old

Josh Cantwell:

Daughter. Yeah. Well, look, look, I’ve already been coaching my kids and talking to them about high school and college. Right. And I’ve already told them that I want them to go to college, not for the degree. I want them to go to college for the relationships. Like to me, college is the biggest networking party of all time, right? Like 60,000 people at Ohio state university or where I went to school, 4,500 people at Baldwin Wallace college. If you use school to build and make relationships for sure. Now as a 45 year old my closest friends are still from college and high school and even grade school. And I’ve definitely had gotten in on some businesses and some business deals and private investors from college. So I didn’t really use college. My dad even told me back then, David, like you don’t go to college to get a degree.

Josh Cantwell:

You go to college to get that piece of paper, to get your first job. Everything really need to know you’re gonna learn on the job. My dad was very direct about that. So I’d, I passed that same lesson back to my kids, go to college, get the degrees. You have the options, but become an entrepreneur. Leverage the relationships that you make in college. The people that you meet in college to make that next leap. And hopefully they get into entrepreneurship as early as possible. I I’ve never had a boss. David. I graduated from college, got into financial planning. I never had a boss there. I worked for only commission only for profit. I’ve never had a W2 income. So I hope my kids do the same thing. I don’t know if my kids are built for it. We’ll see over time. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, I’ve certainly had a lot of ups and downs.

Josh Cantwell:

So some of the things I would tell my kids look is business wise and money wise. One of the lessons I think it takes to be a really big earner is that you have to have super, super time management skills. Okay. Yeah. So one of the ways that you can be a big earner and have a, make a money lesson is that you have to have super time management skills to be a CEO, to be a founder, to be an entrepreneur. That is something you must have because the bigger your business. Again, we have 3,700 units. We own 17 large apartment complexes. We’ve got several different, large property managers that work for us, several construction companies that work for us. You have to have super time management skills to do that. Doesn’t mean you’re working all the time, but when you are dialed into something with work, make sure they have super time management skills. Another thing I would say that’s a money lesson. I tell, look like when you sign up for entrepreneurship and you sign up to be an entrepreneur, you’re signing up to have that personal freedom, but you’re also signing up and understanding nobody’s coming to your rescue.

David Richter:

Hmm. Yeah.

Josh Cantwell:

Nobody, you’re a hundred percent responsible and accountable for your own life. You’re a hundred percent responsible and accountable to whatever you build. And a lot of that’s gonna be built with a great team, but you are a hundred percent responsible and accountable to that. And so these are some of the money lessons. I think that really start with personal reflection, personal how you manage your time, your mindset of nobody’s coming to your rescue, the mindset of service trump’s price. You can always charge more. If you have amazing service. These are some of the things I learned in business that absolutely impact people’s incomes. And I hope my kids learn those.

David Richter:

No, I love that. And something I wanna pick out there that is contrarian to most entrepreneurial type podcaster, like lines of advice is going to school and going to college and having, but being intentional. I think that was so, so great that you gave a different perspective of like, Hey, no, go to college, do that, but be intentional with what you’re doing and then know that it is about networking and those relationships and be very intentional while you’re there have fun, you know, do that stuff. But it’s also be very intentional with it, which, you know, a lot of people, you know, especially like you hear the Robert Kiyosaki and stuff and it’s like, oh, school’s just, you know, it’s not for everyone. Don’t do it and just go into it. But it is. I think, I think what you said, it’s perfect. It’s the networking and who can you, who can you provide value to once you get into, out there and know what your superpower is and know how you provide value to others and how do you bring those people together? I think that was something I wanted to pick out. That’s not typically on what you hear on entrepreneurial type podcast. So yeah, no, I thought that was great.

Josh Cantwell:

I think there’s two types of school, right? There’s definitely the traditional college, which if my kids want to do that, want to go, like I’m very supportive, but I’m a huge fan of the weekend warrior boot camp.

David Richter:

Oh yeah. Yes.

Josh Cantwell:

Like real estate, eCommerce, raising money, lifestyle investing – so many different boot camps. And especially now that so many of ’em are virtual. You can get access to amazing information for a few hundred dollars or a few thousand dollars. If you buy a ticket and you have to travel somewhere that again, relationship building and learning together and having fun, right. Meeting new people and going out and having a blasting new cities. Like I, I just got, I got lucky that my dad really advocated for traditional college and my dad advocated for entrepreneurship. I went to, while I was in high school while I was in college, I saw my dad going to Zig Ziglar conferences. Like, you know, Brian Tracy Conferences, listening to books, you know, the, the university on wheels like Brian, Tracy used to talk about in the car. My dad did all that stuff. And my dad was a very much a W2 earner most of his life. And then when he was in his fifties, he started these companies and our, my, my life has forever changed because of it. And that was the mix of traditional schooling as well as weekend warrior schooling, as well as like, you know, understand, you might go into debt to get a traditional degree, but the networking that can come from it, that was a perfect mix for me. It’s not right for everybody, David, but it definitely worked out for me,

David Richter:

Man. I love this. I mean, if you’re listening to this, it doesn’t matter your age. Doesn’t matter where you are right now. You can get that education, whatever you want. And it’s not too late to start and it’s not too early to start like go out there, see how you can provide that value. I think it says, this covers anyone who’s listening right now. You can go out there and make something, do something. Don’t be afraid to take that leap and bet on yourself. I love what you said too. It’s your, it’s your accountability. So if you know right now, if you have that fear, it’s usually that fear that’s inside of you because you don’t trust yourself. But once you get over that hump and the mindset and going down your personal journey, it becomes a whole lot easier to bet on yourself. When you say I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna make it happen. I don’t care what it takes, but I’m going to do it. So absolutely love that. What

Josh Cantwell:

Expectation I think is important. You know, I think that as parents, especially entrepreneurial parents, we’re trying to build something special for our own lives, for our kids, our employees, our staff. Yep. But I’m also, you know, I think you’ve gotta take that extra effort. If you have young kids or grandkids or nieces and nephews, or just, even if you don’t volunteer at a school, go, go give a talk at a high school or a grade school or a college and expectation is so important. Right? So I expected because I watched my dad, I didn’t say a lot, but I just got to observe him that I expected to be in the top 1%. I expected to be the top of my class, get good grades. I expected to have success. Like I, I never thought any different, like I never thought I was just gonna be middle class and just get by that.

Josh Cantwell:

It was never, it was never in my vocabulary. It wasn’t in my DNA. It was never an option. And it wasn’t like my dad said, you have no option. You must be successful. That wasn’t it at all. It was just, that’s the standard, the example that he said. So I think as parents and as adults, we have an obligation. I feel to give that back to the next generation and talk to them about expectation. You should. There’s no reason why you can’t do it. I tell people, look, make a million bucks a year. What makes you so special that you can’t do that?

David Richter:


Josh Cantwell:

These are lots of people who are not special, who are making a million bucks a year who have a million dollar business. Yes. They’re not special. So why are you so special that you can’t do that? Because there’s so many people who are just very normal average who just work hard, take responsibility that build amazing companies. They can do it right. A little bit, sir. Walk, the example is big, but the expectation I think is just as important.

David Richter:

Oh yeah, no, I love that a hundred percent. So let’s for the last few minutes here, let’s talk a little bit about Profit First and, and apartment investing. So tell us about that setup and kind of taking a hard pivot here too. Now that side of the business of managing the money from that point of view and using the Profit First mentality and the Profit First system. Can you just tell us how you use that from the apartment side of things?

Josh Cantwell:

Absolutely. Look, Profit First had a big impact on my life couple years ago when I went through it. I remember I immediately, after listening to it, I was working out. I was in my basement. I called my CFO. I’m like, Roberto, we’ve gotta set up all these accounts, Profit First. This is the way to do it. And we didn’t adopt it exactly, but we’ve, it had an impact psychologically on how we were gonna manage the building. So when we buy an apartment building, I have an apartment building that we’re closing on in about 40 days. So that deal we’re gonna buy for 9 million. We’re gonna put in about a million million, one in improvements. So those are hard capital improvements, very similar to, if you have an eCommerce business and you’re buying inventory or you’re building your website or you’re setting up your Facebook ads, you’re doing the, the, the hard work of building the business that for us is improving the building, improving the units, adding new roofs, adding, you know new amenities, those kind of things to really harden the asset.

Josh Cantwell:

Then when the building is hardened, you could charge more money. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> you can raise the rent. Yep. Right? So it’s like, okay, if I have an e-commerce business and I’m selling crafts arts and crafts, well, maybe at the beginning, you’re just trying to get your first customer. So you charge less. Then you’re not making maybe a lot of profit, but over time they have a repeat customer. You upsell things. Maybe you could charge more, you have more established, you can raise your rates. So for us, it became, okay, we’re gonna take one account. We’re gonna set up one kind of Profit First account, just for capital improvements. We’re gonna take this million dollars. We’re gonna close on the deal. We’re gonna take a million bucks that we’ve raised from investors. And we’ve gotten from our lender. We’re gonna set that aside in a CapEx account.

Josh Cantwell:

Okay. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and the money’s gonna come out of there. Then we identify, we said, what’s the hard regular recurring costs, the cost of labor, the cost of people. What does that cost every single two weeks. And that comes out of that CapEx account. So our cost of our VP of construction, cost of the labor, it’s all starting to come out of that account, that account, just like my Mike talks about you guys talk about in your book, David is that’s not gonna intermingle with our operating account. Hmm. Yeah. Okay. So then the operating account, the operating account is where the cash is coming in from the rents. And the rents are coming in. The rents are coming in to pay the debt, service, the expenses, the real estate taxes, the insurance, those kind of things. And we have a budget for all of that.

Josh Cantwell:

So we have a budget when we buy the building, we know David that the previous owner was managing the building a certain way. We see a copy of his financials. Well, our financials are totally different, right? So we’re gonna have a certain amount of like management fees, management, expenses, insurance property taxes. Then we have utilities, those kind of things. So as we improve the building, all the money for the, the hard improvements of the building are coming outta the CapEx account. All of the operating expenses are coming outta the OPEX account. And then our property manager is paid a percentage of the gross rents, the gross collections mm-hmm <affirmative>. So that property manager gets paid more money. The more money we make and collect the more money they make mm-hmm <affirmative>. So we’re all in the same boat row in the same direction.

Josh Cantwell:

Okay. Then the next step is, and this is, I guess, the there’s several other steps, but these are the big ones. This third piece is our limited partners. So when we buy a building, we syndicate it syndication, right? Where we raise money from private investors for the down payment, for the capital improvements, the soft costs and the acquisition fee. So we now have two ways that we, one way we get paid, and one way the limited partners get paid at closing, we take our Profit First by taking an acquisition fee. So we usually take a one or a two or 3% acquisition fee upfront. We take that off the top, just like the books. Talk about, take it off the top that goes into our HQ account, our headquarters account to pay our, our HQ headcount, which means our CFO, our operations managers, and we as owners takes the money out of the business, right.

Josh Cantwell:

When we buy the property. Okay. Yep. So that comes out off the top Profit First. So we take the money. Then the limited partners who put up the money, they are now being paid first out of the cash flow that’s coming in. So they get what’s called a preferred return as they get a preferred return from the deal they get paid before we get paid. Okay. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so we’ve essentially set up essentially for accounts or four buckets, where one is a CapEx bucket. One is the OPEX bucket. You have the acquisition fee bucket. And then out of the operating account, we have to pay the debt service first, the expenses second, and the limited partners. Third. Okay. Yeah. So these, all the buckets that Michael and you talk about in your books, and then finally, when we get to the point of the building being stabilized, it could be two years from now, four years from now, then we do a big refinance. We pay all the investors off, we pay them back and now it’s all profit.

David Richter:

<Laugh> right?

Josh Cantwell:

Yeah. It’s all profit. Cause now we have enough new cash flow to pay the debt service, to pay the expenses. And just now everybody’s being paid profit out limited partners, general partners everybody’s being paid. So that’s how we manage the building during stabilization. And that’s how we manage it during, when it’s stabilized and it’s throwing off lots of cash flow.

David Richter:

Yeah, no, that’s awesome. I love that because so many people <laugh>, it’s from all walks of life, all types of real estate investors, it doesn’t matter if it’s a single family or they’re doing rentals flips, you know, or multi-family, they’re always thinking, how does this apply to me? How can I do this? Then here we go. If you have any qualms or any questions or anything, this is how Josh is doing it with literally multimillion dollar transactions. This is how he just gave you some steps of what he does to separate those out, to make sure he knows his numbers, knows it from the cash perspective, knows there’s enough cash to pay the people, take the Profit First and make sure that that he’s actually they’re benefiting from this and that the limited partners are benefiting and that it’s actually all in sync. And he does that very clearly. And I, I love that because, you know, we work with a lot of different types of people and it’s like, okay, this works no matter what type of business you have, this just helps you more with the mindset of, yes, we can make this happen. We can see the numbers very clearly. And we can make sure that we are profitable on these deals and help to retain that profitability.

Josh Cantwell:

I have no problem paying out the limited partners, paying the debt, paying the operating expenses because I took the Profit First. When I bought the property, I got paid off the rip. So even if I don’t make a whole lot of money now for the next year or two or three, while we’re izing the building, I always got paid first. So because of that, I’m not like mad at my deal. Now that I’m working hard to stabilize it. Like I mad at my business. A lot of people get mad at their business because they’re like, I just keep sinking money into it. It never pays me back. And I’m just working hard and my money keeps disappearing into all these expenses. Well, look, if you take some of the profit off the top at the beginning, like we do, or like we talk about in all the books, right?

Josh Cantwell:

That is a way to psychologically win out of the gate so that you’re okay. Working late, working weekends, working harder to build the business, ultimately that you want. So for us, it’s like, look, we get paid. Like I I’ll probably this year, we’ll close on seven or eight large apartment complexes. We’ve already bought five or six. I can’t remember. We’ve got three more closing. So I’ll get eight times. Let’s call it seven or eight profit. First off the rip hundreds of thousands of dollars. You’re talking close to probably a million bucks at the end of the day, that is gonna come to me, come into the business to run it. And then I have no problem working my face off so that we can have a long term stabilized asset. That’s gonna pay us forever. That to me is psychologically is where we went off the rip. If you’re not doing that, you’re gonna despise your business. You’re gonna hate your business. You’re gonna hate to work in it. You’re gonna feel obligated to it probably going into debt because of it, because you don’t even like your company. Right. Right. Right. So find a way to get paid off the rip and the whole psychological part of running a business changes.

David Richter:

Right. And I love what you said there because that’s how many people work late anyways and work nights, the work weekends. And they are, they’re just hating it. Why am I doing this? This is ridiculous. And this is, you are at the stage now you’ve been implementing it and you are seeing it. And now you’ve got a system for it at these high level deals. But if you’re just starting out in real estate and listening to this, do it from your first deal, do it or wherever you are right now, your next deal, I should say, your next deal, implement this, start this, because then it gets easier. You’re get into that psychological habit of making sure you’re taken care of. So that way, when you’re doing million dollar deals like Josh, that way, you’ve got the right mindset and you’re not hitting your business at a whole different level, you know, with 6 0 7, 0 8, you know, like however many zeros it is that you can, you’re going to get to. So absolutely love that. That was great advice. That is

Josh Cantwell:

One piece. Like I started doing this on single family properties over ago. I would buy that property for a hundred grand. I was gonna put 35,000 of renovation into it. I’m into it for 1 35. I would borrow like 140 or 145 from my private investor to do that deal. I would take a 5,000 or a $7,000 acquisition to what I was basically doing was I was taking Profit First. Some of my future profit I was taking when I bought the property, then I wasn’t despising that deal as we were renovating it or fixing it up. So you could do it on a, on a rehab, a small single, or a small duplex, cuz I did that. And you could do it on a, you know, 170 unit or a 220 unit like the deals we’re closing next month. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> it doesn’t matter. You just kinda over raise or over borrow a little bit of money for a real estate deal upfront that there’s enough cash sitting in the operating account. Take a little bit of scratch off the top. Then you go into all your stabilization plans and of course the deal still needs a pencil. You know, if I was into that deal for 1 45, I would wanna make sure it’s gonna be work two 10. Yeah. Or two 20, by the time I’m done with it or 200, there’s lots of equity, lots of profit for everybody. So, but yeah, we started on really small deals when we started this.

David Richter:

Yeah. And I love that. I love just getting into that habit, its getting to that habit of Profit First and making it that psychological effect of, you know, I don’t wanna hate my business while I go through it. You know, like let’s enjoy this and if I do need to work late or do these things, then it’s like, ah, well we we’re taking care of, I don’t, at least I don’t have to stress about money while I’m working late. We’re just getting the deal done and getting it across the finish line. Right. that’s awesome. So you’ve provided a ton of value here. Just have one final question here. So Josh, you are, you raise a lot of capital. You’ve got a mastermind, a very elite individual. So how, what, how can our listeners who, if they wanna connect with you and how can they provide value back to you?

Josh Cantwell:

Yeah. So just visit our website FreelandVentures.com. There, you know, we can work together like, look, I’ve, I’ve had a big coaching business before I’ve strategically wound it down just because I wanna focus on doing deals. Hmm. So, you know, I could partner with your listeners. They have deals, especially the bigger, the better for me. Like they’re looking for somebody who’s maybe wants to cosponsor a deal, raise capital. I’m looking for those kind of partnerships. You wanna be a passive investor. That’s great. If they’re an intermediate to advanced investor, looking to kind of scale up into apartments, we can connect that way. We can just go to our website, FreelandVentures.com. We can connect there and you know, I’d love to do deals. It’s all about partnerships, big deals. There’s so much equity. There’s so much profit. If they’re done right, you can splice the deal up with lots of people and everybody makes a lot of money. So happy to do that.

David Richter:

Awesome. So there you go. And there’s this website and we’ll make sure that that’s in the show notes too, but Josh, this has been incredible. Thank you so much for coming on today and giving people encouragement for your Profit First journey and what you’re doing now. Thank you so much.

Josh Cantwell:

Hey Dave, thanks for having me on,

David Richter:

Thank you so much for listening to today’s show. If you found this episode valuable, could you do me a quick favor? Could you give us an honest rating within iTunes and be honest, you could say whether you liked it or not. And obviously with iTunes, the more reviews and ratings we have, the better it is for other people that are searching for Profit First and a podcast. So we’d love to be ranked on there and that’s thanks to your help. So we would really appreciate that if you would like to go give us a rating. Also, if you’re looking to connect with us further, I would highly recommend checking out our Facebook group Profit First for real estate investors. And that’s literally what it’s called. So you can type in Profit First for real estate investors and you’ll be able to find <laugh>, you’ll be able to find our Facebook group right there.

David Richter:

So come join active real estate investors who are supporting each other and growing their businesses and profits together. That’s what that group is all about. The link should be in the description below. And if you’re interested in working with us and implementing Profit First in your real estate business, we offer coaching and guidance. So if you wanna work with someone who’s actually Profit First Certified and who works right now currently with real estate businesses, you can actually go start your application process by going to simpleCFO.com/apply or just go right to simpleCFO.com. And there’s an applied button right on there. If you wanna actually start your Profit First journey with someone who can actually walk you through those step by step and help, you know, and grow your cash flow. Thanks again for joining us for another episode of the Profit First REI Podcast. See you next episode.

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Title: “Realize Your REI Potential with Jennifer Steward: Authenticity, Profitability, and Consistency”

Episode: 240

In this episode of Profit First for REI podcast, we are sitting down with Jennifer Steward of REI Data Source, to unveil the secret weapon you’ve been missing: authenticity. 

Jen will crack the code on how to project a winning image that seals the deal…But wait, there’s more! Learn the top revenue activities every entrepreneur should master and discover the power of consistent strategies to solve your REI problems.

This episode is your blueprint to a thriving virtual business. Don’t miss out!

Key Takeaways:

[0:50] Introducing Jennifer Steward

[6:07] Project an image of success from

time to time

[9:16] Some best revenue activities that every entrepreneur should know

[11:00] Leveraging every avenue that you can, get consistency, and make sure you’re solving current problems

[17:43] The golden ratio in social media marketing is: 90% business and 10% personal

[25:02] The benefits of running a virtual business


[4:20] “Authenticity is like a business repellant.”

[10:09]  “In a market where you can’t dind deals but there’s plenty of money, you have to be the person who knows how to find the deals.” 

Connect with Jennifer:

REI Data Source Website: https://www.reidatasource.net 

Jen’s Email: jen@reidatasource.net 

Phone Number: (469) 952-8011

Tired of living deal to deal? 

If you are a real estate investor or business owner who is tired of living deal to deal and want to double your profits, head over here to book your no-obligation discovery call with me. Either myself or someone from my team will hop on a short call with you to get clear on your business goals, remove any obstacles holding you back, and map out a game plan to help you finally start keeping more of the money you work so hard to make. – David


Speaker 1 (00:00):

You need to just be able to solve the seller’s problem and just start with one exit strategy that you’re really confident in. And then once you master that, expand from there. And like you and I talked about, it’s who not how you don’t have time. Most likely to master all of those. So have a referral partner that you can build a relationship with and trust.

Speaker 2 (00:23):

If you’re a real estate investor who’s sick and tired of living deal to deal, then welcome home. Hear from everyday real estate investors just like you, and discover how they’ve completely transformed their business by taking a profit First approach. This is the profit first for REI podcast, where we believe revenue is vanity. Profit is sanity. It’s time to start making profit a habit in your business. So here’s your host, David Richter.

Speaker 3 (00:50):

Today we have Jennifer Stewart on which she is a go-getter. She’s out there, she’s doing lots of things. She’s in the cold calling space. She’s also a real estate investor. But then she’s also someone who I think has gone through a lot in her life and has come out on the other side stronger. And you can tell just from what she talks about and what she sees as the most successful real estate investors, what they do on a daily basis, on a monthly basis, it’s just good bottom line stuff to help you if you want to become someone who’s consistent in business, no matter what the market is doing. So I think this is going to be a really good episode. She gets into the nitty gritty and also just helping you get to where you want to be and making more money as a entrepreneur. Jennifer, welcome to the Profit First REI podcast. I’m so excited you’re here today.

Speaker 1 (01:37):

David, thank you so much for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this all weekend. What a great way to spend a Tuesday at noon and thank you. Thank you so much for having me today.

Speaker 3 (01:47):

Yeah, well I’m excited because we dance around in these different groups and we’re going to these events and you’re speaking a lot, you’re helping a lot of people out there, and I see you as someone who’s just very much, I hope this comes across, but just a very mature human being that has gone through a lot, but you haven’t just been a victim. You’ve been someone who said, I’m going to grow from what I’ve gone through, and that’s what I’ve just observed. And then honestly, there’s lots of my friends that respect you a lot too. I’ve gotten to know you well, so I’m excited about this one. So many things that I feel like we could go down, lots of roads here. So again, thank you for being on the show.

Speaker 1 (02:25):

I appreciate that. That’s very generous and kind observation. I think mature is a very polite word and I am just kind of overwhelmed with that kind assessment.

Speaker 3 (02:37):

Yeah, well, I don’t want to use any rude words for you here today, so we’re going to dive into it. No, but seriously I do. I see as someone who takes a lot of those lessons and applies them right away. I would also say too that you are not scared about sharing what you’ve learned and what you’ve gone through. Where do you get that deep sense of truth to share exactly what’s going on? And I don’t know if you’re a fan of the office or if you’ve ever seen that show. I like the Office, if you like the office. Where is it? I think it’s Kelly’s, Dayton, Daryl, and she says, he said, who says exactly what they’re thinking? What kind of game is that? And I’m like, that is Jennifer to a t. And I’m just wondering how did you get that as part of you? Because I think it’s so genuine, authentic, and it brings more people to you and they resonate. You’re saying what they’re scared to say.

Speaker 1 (03:30):

My business advisors have told me to do the opposite. They said

Speaker 3 (03:36):

Genuine, sorry. That’s great. Basically the

Speaker 1 (03:38):

More money you’re going to make, you have to play the game. And so what I’ll do, David being totally transparent, is I’ll turn that on and off depending on my revenue. So I know that sounds hilarious probably, but if my revenue gets lower, I will turn off the authenticity to a certain extent and go back into my polite game, the system mode. But whenever income is plentiful, I’ll go back to being more my authentic sharing self because number one, sometimes I get more business than I can possibly ever take down, and that’s overwhelming. And so I find that authenticity is like a business repellent, but it’s so much, it’s so stressful for me to be fake. It’s so stressful for me to be something I’m not. And that’s me being a little bit funny, but also kind of realistic as a business woman. And then there’s me as a person who has a soul and that person wants to connect. That person realizes that I’m not just here to make money, I am here to help people who are suffering. And I know that sounds cheesy and cliche, but it’s true. And lemme tell you, I don’t want to be one of those people who are suffering. So I will switch into a mode that is more polished, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (05:09):

That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (05:10):

Because I don’t want to starve. And so I do kind of go back and forth between, okay, I need to dial it back. And I think that people notice that if I was just all the time talking about what a person can overcome or the deep parts of our why and our feelings, then I think that would really drive away a lot of business. I’ve seen people who got up on stage and talked about aligning the chakras and they were never invited back. So you have to find a balance between being a compelling human who helps people overcome these internal struggles that we likely all face, especially as entrepreneurs, depression, anxiety, slow times debt overhead, really painful things that will keep up at night and destroy your health and destroy your relationships. And then we also need to focus on, unfortunately we have to project an image of success from time to time because I’ll tell you, I always get the most business whenever I’m on vacation, I can actively ask people to leave me alone while I’m on vacation.


And that’s whenever I get all the messages for, Hey, I want to do business with you. Because they see the success, they see that it works. When really that’s I’m spending the money, that’s whenever I’m the least successful because I’m not putting time into my business and the dollars are just flying out the window like someone who has an open wound. And so it’s funny because it’s whenever you’re doing the best that it doesn’t show, and whenever I’m making the most money, it’s usually whenever I look the worst, I haven’t had time to groom myself. I’m probably still wearing pajamas that day. And so it’s almost always the opposite as to who has money and who doesn’t. So the person you see with the super nice house and the super nice car, those people have confided in me, Hey, I have so much pressure, I feel like I’m going to lose it.


But those are the people that look up to and respect. And so that being said, David, if I was financially independent, 100% I would be genuine and deep and all the time, if that makes sense. It would be like, Hey, when you woke up today, did you thank God for just waking up? And what are some ways that you can lower your overhead? What are some ways you can increase revenue? Are you wasting time on non-revenue generating activities? Are you doing too much stuff for free? Those of us who are in real estate, I think we do too many things for free. And like you and I talked about, it’s not just your expenditures that are on your books, it’s also the expenditures that are on your time. And so I talked to my attorney last week about dropping non-revenue generating businesses that just aren’t converting because there’s hope in one hand and there’s numbers in the other.


And after a certain amount of time, you need to realize which businesses are covering for the businesses that are taking a loss. And so my lawyer kind of sat me down and I know you do this, and we had to look at which businesses are just not generating and which are carrying the ones that aren’t. And he said, just focus on the ones that are. And so that being said, whenever we wake up every day, if we are our real selves all day, it usually doesn’t translate into revenue. But when I have the luxury of being myself, David, I always want to reduce the suffering of others because that’s kind of all I’ve done my whole life is I’ve had to overcome and overcome and overcome and overcome to a degree that just feels, it could feel really unlucky if I let myself go there. But instead of feeling unlucky, I have to see the opposite side of it. So for all the extremely low probability things that happened to me, there’s also extreme low probability things that happened for me. And you have to see both.

Speaker 3 (09:11):

Right. That’s really good. That is really good. So since we’ve gone down this road, and especially for the real estate investors listening, what would you say are some of the best revenue producing activities they could be doing or that you see in your own life that you do that translates into that

Speaker 1 (09:29):

You have to fill a niche that nobody else is filling? You have to see a problem that everyone is facing a hitch in the giddy up that’s keeping everyone from making money. What I’m noticing right now, for example, people don’t have the money for down payments on their loans. So like we mentioned before the call, I’m offering a program where you can do a hundred percent financing as long as you’re one of my cold calling clients. And it blew up because people don’t have the money for a down payment right now, and my cold callers really aren’t that expensive. And so it solves that problem for them. And in the past, the biggest problem was finding deals. And in a market where you can’t find deals, but there’s plenty of money, then you have to be the person who knows how to find the deals.


And so you have to find what’s keeping people from making money today in the current market and then really, really leverage your social media and go speak, like you and I talked about before, go speak on those topics, mention it on social media, put it in your stories, tell people what you do, and then be really consistent with your message because people are watching, they want to see consistency. And it’s like my lawyer taught me, who’s Jeff Watson? If they see you being erratic and all over the place and not consistent in your message, then people don’t trust that they can go to you to solve these problems. And so that’s the big key is leveraging your social media and being really consistent in your message and making sure that you’re solving the problems of today. So those three things, consistency, solving the current problems and just making sure that you’re leveraging pretty much every avenue that you can.


And of course, always want to be competent and run an ethical business because you can spend 10 years building a reputation. And if you hire one bad employee or someone who makes you look bad or doesn’t deliver for a client, unfortunately bad news spreads like wildfire and just whatever you’re buying on Amazon, you’re going to pay more attention to the bad review than the good reviews because we’re looking for to avoid pain for good reasons. I mean, some things could take us out and set us back a decade if we make the wrong investment. And so it’s really, really important in a capital intensive business what we’re in to be someone who’s trustworthy, competent with very high integrity. Like you and I talked last week and I told you, I was like, Hey, I can’t be consulting on a topic that I don’t know about. Thank you for the inquiry. But that would be horribly unethical. And you have to do that. You have to turn down the fast money for the long-term play of having high integrity.

Speaker 3 (12:18):

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. That’s really good. I think that’s consistency, solving the problem for today and then getting the message out. So those are three steps there. And I think that’s where it’s like, it’s so simple, but it’s like that number one, you got to do it consistently and you got to move to where the market is. So I think that’s really good stuff because I can’t agree more because I think, do you think that a lot of real estate investors build themselves into a box and then when that solving the problem of what they used to do doesn’t solve it anymore, that they have a hard time pivoting to something that will and bring the revenue? Yeah,

Speaker 1 (12:57):

I mean you have your fast movers, your highly networked people who are poised to move, but for anyone who doesn’t want to hustle 24 7, it’s hard to pivot like that. I mean, at some point, I think human beings, we all want consistency, predictability. And one thing that’s really tough about this business, and I’m sure everyone notices, is how fast paced it really is. Now, if we were in the paper business, for example, David, how much do you think things change? Speaking of office space or not office space, the

Speaker 3 (13:35):

Office office,

Speaker 1 (13:36):

Yeah, yeah. I mean if we’re a paper company, how often do you think the industry changes? Right.

Speaker 3 (13:42):

It doesn’t really change. I don’t know.

Speaker 1 (13:44):

I mean maybe a paper guy comes and messages us and said, oh, you wouldn’t believe.


But it seems like from the outside looking in that real estate, every day there’s some new gimmicky stuff and you’re just like, I can’t handle this. I need to step away because I can’t handle one more gimmick. I can’t handle one more big change. It’s difficult. And so I think knowing the fundamentals, because I know people who make big money just using a yellow pad for their CRMs still, and some of these people are big names, and I don’t think he’d mind me saying, Adam Johnson, Leon Johnson’s son, he does a lot of deals just using a yellow pad. Courtney Frickey, she has her paper leads that she keeps in a file and only goes through them if she needs to. So a lot of these gimmicks just really aren’t the real deal. The real deal is not necessarily what software you’re using, it’s where are we in the market, are there more deals than money or is there more money than deals?


Those are really the main two shifts that if you pay attention to those in the market, you’re good. And people was like, oh, I do this with AI and I do that with ai. I haven’t seen AI do anything really amazing except for Google search type stuff. I mean, I’ve listened to the AI calls and they’re still not that great yet. And I keep hearing people say, oh, AI is going to be doing our acquisition management soon. Well, yes, true, but when I haven’t seen it yet and still, which problem is it solving the low money problem or the low inventory problem? And right now I think it’s market to market. It’s kind of like mushrooms and in certain markets we still have an inventory problem and other markets are more of a buyer’s market and we have more of a money problem. So you have to take it market by market, city by city and see which problem are you solving. Those are really the main two problems in real estate. And what I’ve seen is everything else is a marketing gimmick. As someone who does marketing myself, we try to repackage it to get people’s attention, but it’s kind of all the same stuff.

Speaker 3 (15:59):

Yeah, no, that makes sense. So would you say then the people like Adam and the people like Courtney, are those three things that you mentioned before consistent solve the problem for today and then the media and the messaging is that their key to success and as long as they’re consistent doing, what’s really is that or is there something that makes them different just because they go out there, and I love how you said with their CRM is a yellow legal pad, it’s none of the fancy stuff and all that where a lot of people get trapped in that rabbit hole. So that’s where my I’m wondering, yeah,

Speaker 1 (16:31):

Courtney’s really consistent on Instagram and she gets a lot of referrals. And Adam’s been in his market for 20 years, so he gets a lot of referrals. So you talk about consistency, it’s decades of consistency in Adam’s case, and Courtney has been doing it I think for 10 years, and she really gets out there in terms of, she speaks in front of realtors groups, she speaks at rhe, she holds her radio show, and she’s very consistent in her branding. She doesn’t just show herself boating on the weekend or shopping or whatever. And if you look back through her Instagram, you can see that in the past she did have more of showing her personal life. And Connor Steinbrook taught me, don’t show your personal life, just make your entire page about business. But there is one caveat to that. You don’t want to look like one of those VA generated pages where there’s no real person behind it.

Speaker 3 (17:23):


Speaker 1 (17:24):

Looks like a VA just runs my page and it’s just my VA who does everything. So I do post pictures of my family and going to the gym, and if I do go on vacation, I do post that. But too much of it makes people think you’re not available for business. So I would say the golden ratio that I’ve discovered is about 90% business and 10% personal, just to add that speckle of reality that you are a real person and not a va. And I think Courtney does that very well on her Instagram for example, and she doesn’t even have to spend money on marketing. She told me she doesn’t do that anymore. She’s a hundred percent referral based now and it’s taken being consistent

Speaker 3 (18:04):

And she does a lot of creative deals or that’s all she does is the creative type deals. She

Speaker 1 (18:10):

Does kind of everything. I know her to do flips, I know her to do. She’s mostly a buy and hold investor and she will do creative when she needs to. But I think I’ve had a lot of clients come to me over the years and try to curate a marketing plan where all we do is creative for them. And that is really tough. You’re going to have a low ratio of being able to do that. Typically creative should be something that comes organically from time to time. If you make that your only goal, and this was a guy with a lot of money, by the way, the one I’m thinking of. He had so much money, yet he was super focused on just doing creative. And I understand if someone has no money and they’re just focused on doing creative, but they get it in their head that this is the way to do it and there is no the way to do it.


You have to just solve the problem of the current seller who wants to sell, whether it’s a listing, whether it’s innovation, whether it’s a flip, whether it’s a wholesale, whether it’s long-term buying hold subject to seller finance, and anything else I’m missing in there. It shouldn’t just be, oh, I’m going to pull this list and I’m just going to do ovations or I’m going to do this campaign. I’m just going to do subject two. You need to just be able to solve the seller’s problem and just start with one, this is something I’ve taught for years. Just start with one exit strategy that you’re really competent in. And then once you master that, expand from there, and like you and I talked about, it’s who not how you don’t have time most likely to master all of those. So have a referral partner that you can build a relationship with and trust for innovations for subject to maybe even for seller financing or maybe master two, but mastering all of the above would be insanity. Even if you had been doing this for 50 years like Leon Johnson, that would be insanity. So be ready to leverage joint venture partners that you can trust with the right paperwork behind it. Of course.

Speaker 3 (20:02):

Would you say that if you go down that road, can you build a business like that? Meaning where a business is systems and other people where eventually you have a business that runs itself or runs it with the people in the processes you’ve put in place. It seems like with real estate, like you’re saying, I have to solve the seller’s problem right then and there. So it almost sounds like you need at those higher level people, you can’t just get the McDonald’s line worker that’s there or the robot or AI or something like that. That’s

Speaker 1 (20:33):

The challenge that I’ve run into. And I feel like conceptually it can be done, but then in psychology we have something called channel factors, these little things that get in the way of what sounds good on paper. And that’s usually where the human element comes in because I have staff of 180 people in my agency and I’ve learned little tricks to managing them. For example, this is going to sound weird, I don’t do company meetings because I just meet with them as I need to. I do spend a lot of time with them upfront, maybe a few hours, and then I never talk to them again except to tell them when a job has come in. And if they need more than that, they’re probably not a good fit. And I don’t do group meetings because I’ve had them all group up against me in the past to raise wages, basically wanting to unionize whenever my clients can’t afford that.


And I said, I’ll let the whole company burn down before I let you extort me in this way. And I did. And I did it privately. I didn’t tell anyone. I didn’t go public about it, but I just stopped the company for six months and just traveled. And it’s like I have plenty of money. And then they were suffering. And then once I was done traveling, they were like, Jen, please, please, I’ll come back. So who would think that there’s a human variable of needing to stop people from organizing against you, or it’s like Adam Johnson says, you have to make sure that you’re always in the way of a deal in order to get it done. So that’s why you can’t fully replace yourself for the most part unless you sell the company, is because at some point somewhere you need to add value. And yes, you can have an integrator, and yes, you can have a CEO, and yes, you can have a CFO, et cetera, but if you notice even in a C class corporation, you still have shareholders.


The shareholders are still in the way in some way because they own a part of the company. So no matter what, you have to make sure that you’re in the way of other people just taking over completely what you do and just pushing you out. And so that is the challenge. That’s where replacing, that’s what no one talks about. Everyone wants to sell these sexy business models where you’re just on the beach or whatever, but at some point you have to put yourself between yourself and someone else to make sure you’re still adding value or you’re just going to get pushed out. So another example is, I mean, you can just live like my older gentleman, friends who just own a bunch of mutual funds and they don’t manage anything. They just collect checks from the dividends, but you have to have millions in order to achieve that.


Lemme tell you, those are the people who have the most passive income that I’ve seen, and I know this is an REI podcast, but what’s great about real estate is you can start with a relatively small amount of money and then with appreciation, leverage that into millions, and then you can become the mutual fund, the note owner or your kids can get your portfolio, but it’s not as passive as just having your mutual fund dividends come in and as know the stock market goes up and down where rents typically, there’s not as much fluctuation in rents as there is in the stock market. And so all that being said, going back to what you asked, whenever you’re managing staff, there’s just going to be all these psychological factors that are not going to present themselves on paper with your staff is always the biggest challenge in running a company.


And so that’s why I don’t do company meetings because that’s whenever people get together, and pardon my language, I think it’s a poignant word. They start bitching and then that causes morale issues. All it takes is one person to start griping and then morale goes way down. And I don’t care how well you run your company, I don’t care if you are like you have in the background, I don’t care if you’re Mr. Rogers, as soon as someone starts griping and it takes hold, it’s game over. This doesn’t work if you run a brick and mortar business. But I have doctor friends, for example. They run brick and mortar businesses, and one of my doctor’s friends two weeks ago, his entire staff just walked out. They’ve been with them for 20 years and they couldn’t have organized like that if you keep them separate. If you’re running a virtual business, that’s one of the benefits is you can manage your staff. And I tell you, that has made my income extremely passive.


So if you take nothing else away from this by keeping my staff separated, I have generated true passive income for myself because all I do is bring the jobs, bring the clients, they work the clients, and then they do a good job and then I’m out. The only thing I have to do is keep bringing in new clients because there is always going to be some small amount of attrition no matter how good of a job you do for various reasons. So yeah, if you have a virtual business, keep your staff separate and that way they’re not coming together. And it’s amazing how peaceful things are. I have no drama. I have no complaints. I’ve known go well. so-and-so did this, and so-and-so said this, and so-and-so gets paid this and I want to get paid this. It’s like I have literally zero drama in my agency with my staff now, and that has just been amazing.

Speaker 3 (26:03):

Yeah, that’s the first time I’ve heard it put like that of keeping separate in that you don’t run meetings and you don’t get them together, which is very anti, a lot of the books out there and a lot of those systems and stuff that have the organizational meetings and that type of stuff, level 10 meetings or the level 10 meetings and all that, that goes along with it. So I love hearing a contrarian viewpoint, especially for someone who runs a virtual business like that and who’s gone through almost like you said, the utilization of that type of stuff. Yeah, I’ve been this for

Speaker 1 (26:37):

Six years, and so that’s enough time to where you’ve passed some task, kissed a lot of frogs and had every problem under the sun.

Speaker 3 (26:44):

Yeah, yeah, no kidding. So that’s very interesting. Well, this has been a lot of fun. I love the answers that you’ve given. I think there’s some really good value there too with being consistent, solving today’s problem and getting it out there, being consistent of getting out your message as well too. I also like that what you just went over that was so contrary to what other people say. That was really an interesting take. I want to, and I

Speaker 1 (27:10):

Would bet you my headaches are much smaller than theirs,

Speaker 3 (27:14):

Probably. Probably. I mean, well, most people have the headaches in business, and if you just have less than them that it probably wouldn’t take much if you just had just that many less. So that’s great. I love hearing that. What I wanted to talk

Speaker 1 (27:29):

Authentic draws better clients too. I did want to share that because I know I went on a bit of a rant and a ramble about that, but let me be pointing on one point is that by being my real self, David against my business advisor’s advice, the clients I have now, I have no drama with and I don’t know why I’m not smart enough, I guess to know why. But the ones who come to me whenever I’m going through times of being very authentic and just really sharing whatever it is, whatever business problems or personal problems that I may be facing and how I’m overcoming them, I get so many people, like you said, who may not do business immediately and it scares off a lot of people. But the clients who do come to me, we have no problems, no drama. They don’t blame me for a lack of success.


They just come in, show up, close their deals, and they stay long-term customers. So that is one benefit is I get fewer clients, but the ones that I do get, I have zero drama with, and we’re so simpatico that I work hard to make sure they’re successful and they don’t. Whenever I was being inauthentic and getting a lot more clients, we don’t have meetings about Jennifer, why am I spending this money and not getting any deals and then this, and they’re just being very nitpicky, but clients where I’m my authentic self, they come in and they just close deals, David, we don’t have to have awkward meetings that make me feel like crap about myself, feeling like I’m not really actually helping anyone and I’m just charging money and nothing’s happening for them. They come in and they’re like, Hey, Jen, I did this deal. I did this deal. Your staff is great. And so that was a crazy change to me. I thought, this is self-destructive behavior being this authentic, but I just felt compelled to actually help people. And then these clients are the most low maintenance clients I’ve ever had. So I would be curious what your take is on that in terms of why is it being authentic? First off, it’s interesting. It draws in less clients, but the ones that does draw in, I have zero drama, zero problems with, and they stay with me forever,

Speaker 3 (29:36):

Which is funny because what you’re describing now is in those books that tell you to have the meetings, it’s like it’s your core values. It’s the values that are shining through that. It’s people that resonate with you as a human being. So usually they’re going to be the ones, especially if you’re being authentic and being open and honest and sharing values that are just as a society, we look at and say, it’s mature what you’re doing. You draw those mature people in, so it’s like they’re going to be the ones that sit back, they do the deals, they get it done, and then they come to you and they be like, yeah, let’s keep moving forward. And that’s the low drama because projecting that out there as well too, just from what I can observe right there. But I really like that because very much of if you’re going to be yourself, you might bring in less, but you might bring more of the people that you want to work with. That’s what I took away from makes income

Speaker 1 (30:26):

More passive because that is always my goal. Low drama staff, low drama clients where we’re just doing deals. I’m providing excellent staff who are going to make sure that you’re getting in front of as many people as possible for as little money as possible, talking to those motivated sellers, getting good prices on data, getting good prices on your loans to close your deals, and just keep it simple. There shouldn’t be any insanity. There shouldn’t be a lot of complaints and craziness. And that’s not to say there’s never problems, but when there are, it’s like, Hey, Jen, we need to have a meeting because this caller’s gotten a little too lax and they’re just becoming too rote and they’re going through the motions too much. I had to have that call three months ago, but guess what? He didn’t leave. He didn’t blame. He said, Hey, let’s just fix, let’s just fix their script.


And so I told her, I said, Hey, you’re one of my best, and maybe you’re working too long hours. Maybe you need to take more breaks. Maybe we need to load you up with fewer clients because instead of listening to the seller, you are kind of just pushing through the script. I said, someone who started out cold calling myself, I noticed I would do that towards the end of my shift. And I said, so let’s just be aware that that’s what’s going on. But I didn’t blame or shame her. I just said, Hey, because I was sitting in that seat myself for so many years, David is a cold caller. I know what problems they face, and it makes me a better manager for them. And just say, Hey, it just sounds like you’re getting a little tired. And so take a 30 minute nap, take an hour nap and come back and you’ll see how all of a sudden, instead of just pushing through a script, you’re really an active listener.


But that’s the only problem client meeting I had to have in the last six months where before God, David, it seemed like it was every day. People were just pinging me with this is a problem and that’s a problem. This is a problem. And I think that’s what led to my heart attack last year at 38 years old, was just having all these clients with all these complaints and it was just driving me crazy. And now I don’t have any of that. And so just sharing my experience, whether it’s true or false or somewhere in between. It’s just my anecdotal experience.

Speaker 3 (32:36):

Well, no, that’s really good. I wish we more time, but I’m going to land the plane here. We’ll have to do another episode too about how you got through that and coming out on the other side. But if people want to get ahold of you for your cold calling and what you’re doing there and how would they get ahold of you if they want to start to work with

Speaker 1 (32:54):

You? Yeah, whether it’s the cold calling or like I said, the loans where we’re offering a hundred percent financing on both the rehab and purchase price. If they’re my cold calling client, they can just email me at jen, JEN at rre I data source.net. I’m also a really brave person who gives out my cell phone because as a cold caller, I’m not afraid to call you. You

Speaker 3 (33:18):

Can call me,

Speaker 1 (33:19):

I may think you’re a spam call and answer a little bit briskly, but my cell phone is (469) 952-8011. Feel free to call me there or Jen at REI data source.net.

Speaker 3 (33:32):

Cool. So that’s how you could get ahold of Jen, and that’s the email. And she gave your phone number as well too, so you could call her in and say, Hey, hey, just wanted to see if you answer the phone. I’m sure you will. Like you said, who does that? Right? Who? Their cell phone. Cell phone. And then who does that? And then actually answers too. I feel like today’s age, please go to voicemail. So that was good stuff. Lots of valuable information here, stuff that you could take and I think implement right away to become these type of people out there that are consistently successful. And that’s one of their keys to success is being consistent in solving today’s problem, building the message around that as well too. I really liked your insight of the type of client you draw in when you are your authentic self versus where you might get more, but it might be more headaches if you are not. So it’s like just lots of good practical things today. So that was a lot of good stuff. Thank you for sharing, Jen. I really appreciate all that you did here today.

Speaker 1 (34:26):

I appreciate it. David, thank you so much for having, thanks for asking great questions.

Speaker 3 (34:30):

And I wanted to say too, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m not making enough or whatever, first of all, call Jen, you can literally call her. She gave you her number. She can help you make more money if you need to keep the money too. If you’re like, I have no idea where my money’s going, don’t know what my overhead is, don’t know how much I’m making, how much I’m keeping, or I want to keep more, you can reach out to us@simplecfo.com. We want to help you get at least that stuff in place because if you don’t have any idea, you’re not running a business. So that’s where I want to help you at least be consistent in knowing where your money’s going too. That’s another consistency factor as well too there. But Jen, again, thank you so much for coming on and sharing, and if there’s anything that you need from Jen, you know how to get ahold of her. She gave you the email address and her phone number. Again, thank you so much for coming on today.

Speaker 2 (35:17):

This episode of The Profit First for REI podcast is over, but there are plenty more where that came from. Are you ready to learn how David and his team can help implement the Profit First system in your business? Schedule a discovery call@simplecfo.com right now. We’ll see you next time on The Profit First for REI podcast with David Richter.