Do You Want to Make More Excuses or More Money? Real Estate Legend Ron Legrand Reveals His Money-Making Secrets

Episode 84: Do You Want to Make More Excuses or More Money? Real Estate Legend Ron Legrand Reveals His Money-Making Secrets


April 18, 2022

David Richter


Meet the Godfather of creative real estate, Ron LeGrand. He was born with the heart of an entrepreneur and started doing business transactions by the time he was eighteen. Ron entered the real estate world in 1982, and from then on, his innovative mind, true heart, and logical systems propelled him to sell houses without any risks. 

Discover the secret strategy that got him to garner massive deals for the last 37 years. Strap in, and let’s hear out how this genius climbed his way up the ladder.

Key Takeaways:

[1:51] What got him started in real estate, and why did he choose real estate?

[6:03] People who are looking for a lot of excuses don’t make a lot of money

[6:28] The problem of low self-esteem

[7:48] You have to be careful to whom you’ll listen. It would help if you weren’t listening to anybody until you have—a reason to believe that you can trust what anyone says. 

[12:46] His journey facing six market corrections

[14:20] Delegation, Automation, and Systemization makes real estate easier

[19:09] The absolute key is selecting the best people for your business

[22:21] How important is it to know your business numbers?

[27:22] Take action, go out there and implement things

[30:29] Get your education from qualified people to render it


[0:13] “When you spend your life swapping hours for dollars and never really hit a home run, you never really had way more money to live on. It’s hard to get into the mindset that you’re entitled to get more money.”

[11:11] “Somewhere along the line, we have to start digging a little deeper, and find a faster and easier way to make money without the risk.”

[22:30] “Anybody running their business that doesn’t know their numbers wouldn’t be in the business very long.”


Join Ron LeGrand’s Online Training- http://ronlegrand.com/terms 

Tired of living deal to deal? 

If you are a real estate investor or business owner who is tired of living deal to deal, and want to double your profits, head over here to book your no-obligation discovery call with me. Either myself or someone from my team will hop on a short call with you to get clear on your business goals, remove any obstacles holding you back, and map out a game plan to help you finally start keeping more of the money you work so hard to make. – David 


Ron Legrand

I think one of the biggest problems that students come to me today with, David, is low self-esteem. They have a low opinion of what they’re worthy of. When you spend your life swapping hours for dollars, and you never even really hit a home run, you’ve never even really had way more money than you need to live on, it’s kind of hard to get into the mindset that I am entitled to make more money, I’m worthy, I can do it, but I’m not sure because I’ve never done it before.


Welcome to The Profit First REI Podcast where real estate investors master financial management, eradicate entrepreneurial poverty and learn to be profitable from day one. Now for your host, David Richter.

David Richter

Hey everyone. Welcome back to another very special episode of The Profit First REI Podcast here with Ron Legrand. If you don’t know this name, then are you in real estate? He’s impacted so many lives, taught so many people, has done so many deals, helped a lot of people that I don’t know if you are doing real estate. If you haven’t heard about Ron Legrand, you need to look him up and you need to see what he’s doing because he’s done a lot of amazing things over the years. So, Ron, thanks for being on the podcast today.

Ron Legrand

It is my pleasure. What a great introduction.

David Richter

Yeah. I get to see a lot of people in these mastermind behind the scenes and it’s been nice getting to know you and rub shoulders in that aspect as well, and everyone respects you in the real estate space. And you’re as real in there as you are on the webinars and stuff. And I like that too, seeing who’s really the real person. It’s not someone totally different behind the scenes. So that’s awesome. But Ron, let’s dive into it. Let’s let people know, for you, what got you started in real estate investing and why real estate?

Ron Legrand


David Richter


Ron Legrand

Yeah. I was working in a service station. I was managing the station and I was also the mechanic, which means I’d be interrupted every few minutes in the hot Florida sun because I had to go out and pump gas back when we used to do that. You’re too young to remember that. And then we had to work on cars and it was not really a fun job.

I was actually managing the station, but still making no money, barely get by. And crap, we had to buy groceries at least two times a week, couldn’t afford a whole week’s worth at one time. And I’d already been married 17 years. This was in 1982, I’m talking about, so that tells you how old I am. Well, in fact, we just celebrated our 56th wedding anniversary.

David Richter

Oh wow. Congratulations. That’s awesome.

Ron Legrand

So anyway, I just frankly woke up one morning and decided I don’t want to do this for the rest of my life after my wife and I got an argument over she wanted washing a machine, that I couldn’t afford to buy her, to wash my filthy clothes with. So I just made a conscious decision. Sometimes in our lives, David, something just snaps and it changes the way you start thinking. You just decide I’ve had enough. And some people need to get down to the point to where they’ve had enough before they can make a decision they can actually follow up on and implement to change things.

So I went out and I started looking. I had no idea what I was looking for, but saw an ad that said, come learn how to buy real estate without money or credit, and that appealed to me, had neither. I knew it wasn’t true. It had to be a scam, but I went down and checked it out. And next thing you know, I’m in a two day seminar. Had to scrape up the money for that one. And three weeks later, I got my first check on a low wholesale deal. Made three grand on that. Most important check I’ve ever got in my life.

That gave me the confidence to go forward and convinced me that I could do it and that I could do it here and I could do it now. And I just continually spun out. Next thing you know, a couple years gone by and I’m over a million dollars in equity in real estate because I was buying them and fixing them and buying them and renting them and buying them and selling them and wholesaling and the whole bottle of wax, like a man on fire.

And so I built a so-called millionaire portfolio within two years, but that didn’t make the cashflow all that great, because sometimes it was negative. And I decided I wasn’t going to live long enough to get rich this way because my life was destroyed by taking care of all these low income tenants that everything went wrong in their life, they wanted me to get involved in it. And I said, “Oh God.”

So I used to have dark hair back then. See? No more. So that’s how I got started frankly. And I just kept on going, honestly. I guess what’s the difference between most people and me is I just kept on going. Most of them run across a little obstacle, went back to work and nothing changed and some of them died that way, unfortunately. So it’s all in here.

David Richter

Yeah. So then versus now, because now I feel like, and I’m sure this happened in the last cycle too, that there’s just an overabundance of real estate investors. And what do you think from that, when you jumped into real estate to now? What helps people stay for the long term? What is that thing that makes one investor succeed where others don’t stick on and don’t hang on?

Ron Legrand

Well, just so you’ll know, when I got started in 1982, there were a ton of investors out there then. There’s been a ton of investors out there every single year since. I don’t know when they were more or when they were less, honestly I don’t care because nothing they do is going to affect me anyway. I sure never worried about my competition, I was too busy making my own money to care about them, let them worry about me. And that carries right up to the day, by the way in anything I do, I don’t care about my competition. Usually wind up doing business with them before it’s over.

So there’s always going to be competition and if one wants to use that for a convenient excuse not to do anything, it works. It works for you, it works for me, but there’s a whole bunch of excuses you can use if that’s what you want. But I discovered that people who are looking for excuses don’t make much money. People who ignore all the excuses they can come up with and just get to work and quit worrying about all the other things that don’t matter and start making money. And that’s easy to compound once you get that machine rolling, but plenty of excuses.

I think one of the biggest problems that students come to me today with, David, is low self-esteem. They have a low opinion of what they’re worthy of. When you spend your life swapping hours for dollars, and you never even really hit a home run, you’ve never even really had way more money than you need to live on, it’s kind of hard to get into the mindset that I am entitled to make more money, I’m worthy, I can do it, but I’m not sure because I’ve never done it before. And that’s a mindset thing.

So we spend more time changing people’s thinking than anything else, changing their thinking about what real estate is all about, because honestly, when people come to me, they’ve got all these myths running around their head and all these false impressions of what it is about. And they listen to all the people out there trying to tell them what don’t work and it’s illegal here and it don’t work here and this is a hot market and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Of course, all of them are broke and have no idea what they’re talking about, but we humans are conditioned to believe all this crap and absorb it. The next thing you know, they’ve stolen our dreams. And believe me, the world’s full of dream stealers and that’s not going to change. In fact, it’s just getting worse. Some people just live to criticize, condemn and complain and tear you down because the last thing they want to see is you succeed and they’re down here wallowing around in the mud where they want company. And if you’re not careful, they’ll have company because they’ll convince you.

So you have to be careful to whom you listen. Broke people cannot make you rich and you shouldn’t be listening to anybody until you have a reason to believe that you can trust what they say. And even then you take it with a grain of salt. I have a T-shirt, Dave, that says, “The whole world is full of crap.”

David Richter

That’s good. I like that.

Ron Legrand


David Richter

You and my dad would get along well.

Ron Legrand

I’m sure because he’s old too?

David Richter

Oh yeah. See, he’s got a lot of those types of sayings and I absolutely love them.

Ron Legrand

Yeah, I bet I would.

David Richter

Awesome. So flip side. So you think that, or you know, because you’ve seen it, the mindset, the excuses, people down on themselves, what about the people that break through that and come out on the other side? What would you say, for your most successful students, what is the common denominator for the most successful people?

Ron Legrand

The common denominator is that they keep going and pushing through all the really insignificant things that stop them in the beginning. I mean, it’s not insignificant to them, but there are no new problems. Well, I haven’t seen any and I’ve been at this 40 years. There is no new problems. Okay? They’re all the same, they’re just new to you, and they’re not hard to fix. There is no problem in the world of buying and selling houses that is very difficult to fix.

And in fact, if you don’t believe that, go get into another business. Go buy a restaurant. I’ve had six of them for crying out loud. If you want to buy a business that you work your ass off and don’t make any money at it, you got tons of problems and people and all that crap. Compared to what we do in real estate, it’s not even fair to compare the two.

We get high transaction value checks where most of the country is operating on low transaction value checks. We don’t have to do very many deals to make a ton of money, and we do not use money or credit. I will not allow my students to use their credit. If I catch him applying for a loan, I send a six foot eight guy after him. His name is Guido, tattooed from head to tail, got a big stick and there will be blood.

We do not guarantee debt. It’s the biggest mistake people make, but unfortunately they don’t realize it till after they’ve made it and things don’t work out the way they planned. Especially going into these uncertain times where in my opinion, there’s absolutely going to have to be a market correction. I don’t think it’s that far off. And I always tell my people, David, the only way you can not worry about another market correction is to make sure that you get out of personally guaranteed debt and build tons of cashflow that do not rely on you selling something immediately for a price you thought you were going to sell it for.

Let me explain that. If I’m in the rehabbing business, I’ve got to cash out. Market drops on me, I’m in deep ca-ca. I’m going to wind up not making any money. If I’m in the terms business like I am today, I buy on terms and I lease-option and put tenant buyers in there, and I hope they never cash me out, because I make a big old multi-thousand dollar check today from a non-refundable option deposit. I get a big monthly cashflow in these big, nice, beautiful homes in these beautiful areas, not these crack houses in a war zone. I get appreciation, I get depreciation. I usually get free equity the day I buy it. I get to raise the price because we’re selling it on terms. We get to raise the price even higher than they’re raising them in this crazy market we’re in and I get all of the benefits of wealth.

So in other words, I’m getting a check today, but I’m creating cashflow and wealth all in one deal, unlike those that are out there wholesaling and rehabbing and retailing and doing everything the hard way, like I used to do. Okay, I’ll confess, 20 plus years of that, so I get it. But somewhere along the line, we have to start digging a little deeper and looking for the faster and the easier ways to make money without the risk. And frankly, getting all your personally guaranteed debt out of your life is the most important thing I think you can be doing while simultaneously building the cashflow to the point where you don’t have to worry about just making a living.

So we can do that in real estate and we can do it very quickly. But like you say, once I start, if I’m under the impression that I don’t have to do anything or everything’s going to work out just exactly like it did in the seminar and I’m not going to have to get out of my comfort zone, I’m going to give up and quit and I’m not going to get very far.

But on the other hand, when people tell me about the problems they have in real estate, I ask them, do you know of another business that you can start and run that is not going to have problems and things that you’ve never done before that you have to learn to do, because there isn’t any? Payoffs in our business are so big, not only the cash, but also the tax advantages, it’s hard to beat it with another business. And I’ve had several and still got a few.

David Richter

No, that’s awesome, and that’s great advice. So for you, you said you had 20 years of learning it the hard way and then something had to change. Was that a market correction where you were like, you know what? I’m tired of doing this. I want to do the terms and I want to build the wealth now and for later? Was that what happened?

Ron Legrand

Yeah, actually I’ve been through six market corrections, the worst being ’08. However, you can call what we’re doing right now market correction. Market prices are going up, but it’s definitely a market correction. They’re going to come back down. And back in the ’80s, very few people that are watching this will know this, but back in the ’80s, when I started in this business, prime rate was 16% interest. Can you imagine trying to get houses financed when the prime rate is 16% interest? I mean the whole industry died, especially after Reagan passed the 1986 tax law to take away the tax advantages of owning real estate. It was the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen a Republican do in my life. Okay?

And it killed the market. And the point is we had to learn about terms. We had to learn about buying and selling with owner financing and lease options because that’s about the only way you can get in and out of houses. Realtors were dropping like flies, giving up their licenses, because it was just a miserable time to be in that business. And ultimately that changed, but that stuck with me over the years and I learned to apply those.

I don’t know why it took me so long, frankly, because I learned it in the ’80s, but I really didn’t start applying it until the late ’90s and the early 2000s and been applying it ever since. And it’s been getting better ever since because we constantly work on making it easier, and easier, and easier for our students. They don’t have to do much of anything, it’s all done for them. I mean, even the calls to the sellers are done for them, for crying out loud.

So I will say this, I’ve never seen a time in my 40 years where it’s easier to be in the real estate business than it is now because of delegation and automation and systematization. Back when I started, that was way before Al Gore invented the internet, man. We didn’t have all that cool stuff.

David Richter

Yeah. Well, that’s great. No I love that. So would you say being in the terms and being in that type business, did that help during 2007, ‘8, ‘9, when a lot of other businesses were going down?

Ron Legrand

In 2008, when Lehman Brothers went down in September of ’08, my company’s revenue dropped about 80%. My personal revenue dropped about 80%. So it’s a good thing that I had other cashflow coming in at that time, or I probably would not be here now. We had to lay off half of our staff all in one day and we had to claw through that and there were some miserable times after that and we had trouble paying our bills. I mean, look, you either pay your payroll or you pay a bill outside your company. It’s a pretty easy choice and anybody in my position would’ve done the same thing. We got them all paid, but it was not fun dealing with people and couldn’t keep your promises.

So it would’ve been easier just to fold it up and quit, and frankly, a lot of people did and a lot of businesses, a lot of businesses. But we kept up on plugging and we took a couple, three years to get back on our feet, but we adapted. And I guess that’s one of the biggest keys to being successful in this life is that you have to adapt with the times. You got to be willing to change and the best thing you can do is get ahead of this. Before it’s too late, start changing.

So anyway, I started in the terms business. I don’t remember what got me in it. It might even have been by accident, but I grow to love it real fast. Look, I still rehab a house or two now and then, but I haven’t rehabbed one in quite a while and I don’t care if I ever do rehab another one, if you want to be honest, because that’s the hardest way to make money in the business there is.

Wholesaling is easy, but you get one little old check and you got to go out and do it again. You got to give half of that to the government. So what do you gain? You don’t gain anything but a little bit of money. It’s kind of like going and working on a job. And you and I both know people who wholesale 150, 200 houses a year, but still all they’re getting is big checks, making big money. But dig deep, what are they doing with the money?

Now, I have no idea. It’s none of my business, but making that money would be all right, but remember they’re giving a minimum of 37% of it to the IRS because they’re in a higher tax brackets. They’re gaining no positive cashflow. They’re gaining no depreciation, no appreciation, no future wealth. So they better do something with that money to create those things, because they’re not doing it in real estate.

In my terms business, I’m doing it while simultaneously getting great big old checks. I ain’t going to do a deal for less than a $20,000 within a few days after I buy the house, put a tenant buyer in the house. But remember they’re nice houses and they’re in the nice neighborhoods, they’re not garbage. Some people listening that have been in the low income rental business have a hard time understanding how I can get somebody to give me 20, 30, 40, $50,000 on a non-refundable deposit. Well, it’s because of the quality of the product that I’m offering them.

So I get terms and I don’t have to pay cash, I don’t have to raise private money and I certainly don’t have to deal with … Contractors sometimes do a little bit of work, but I don’t have to deal with rehabs, long-term holding periods, the banks, the picky buyers and all of that stuff. So I’m in and I’m out, usually don’t touch the house. I get paid quickly and I keep getting paid long term, sometimes 20 plus years. So it’s a different world.

David Richter

Yeah, it is. That’s awesome. Want to switch gears here, maybe just a little bit, because you’ve also built a great team around you as well too. You’ve got a really great team. And I wanted to ask before we talk about the team, but what would you say your superpower, your strength is? Is it putting together the deals or bringing the right people together and building that business? What would you say is your personal, like this is what I like to do and this is what I know I’m good at doing?

Ron Legrand

Well, in real estate it’s putting together the right deals because I have a commercial mastermind group as well and we’re partnering with them on commercial deals.

David Richter


Single family houses I can do in my sleep, it don’t stir up the molecular structure of my brain actually. Done so where I can’t quit counting. 10, 15 years ago at 3000. I don’t know how many I did, I don’t care. But as far as the company, Global Publishing that puts on my seminars all over the country and virtual as well now, and has been doing that for, golly, since 1999, however many years ago, that was. What is that? I don’t know, 22 years, I guess.

David Richter

22, 23 years. Yeah.

Ron Legrand

The key most absolutely is the people. Did I select the best people? No. I selected … train them and work with them and create the environment that they want to work in. I got a note says your internet connection is unstable. So if we go off, I wasn’t mad at you.

David Richter

Okay. No, it’s okay.

Ron Legrand

And that girl right now is Jennifer Shedlin. She’s been with me for 17 some plus, odd years.

David Richter


Ron Legrand

She runs the show. She makes almost all of the decisions. Of course, it didn’t start that way. She came in to work in HR and I did that to remove the previous COO because it was more of a roadblock, couldn’t get anything done. It was one of those mindsets that you got to make a decision. When you’re leading, you better be making decisions because if you don’t, then people who want to move faster than you are going to leave.

So really I got to credit it to her to be honest with you because I haven’t picked any of the people in the building. I honestly don’t even know how many there are. I don’t deal with them from day to day. I deal with a handful that have to do with what I do, which is teach, do podcasts, go on the road. And also my marketing team, we meet from time to time. And that’s about all I do because I’ve delegated it, trained them along the way and more importantly, turned them loose and let them do what they do.

And look, you have to build trust. You have to be able to trust the people or you’re not there yet. You’re not going to be ever be able to get out of the way until you trust the people that you put there. And some people have a hard time believing, David, that somebody could actually replace me. I laugh at that. There’s not one damn thing you do in your business that somebody else can’t do it for you, not one, and that includes making the decisions. But you got to get them to that point and then let them make those decisions.

And that’s one thing that Jennifer does well, is that she lets the people contribute, think for themselves, bring stuff to the table, feel like they’re a part of the business because they are, share the stuff with them that most people don’t. We know our people know our numbers. I’m not afraid to share my numbers with my employees. They’re the reason for it. Why not? And it works because now they feel like a family. I’ve got, I don’t know how many people been there over 15 years. I mean, been a whole slew of them in there over 10 years.

David Richter


Ron Legrand

Because they’re not going to get a better environment and they’re not going to get better culture and they’re probably not even going to be able to find a better income than what we pay. So that’s the reason that I don’t have to get up and go to work every day.

David Richter

That’s awesome. I love that. Culture and making sure that they’re empowered to make those decisions. I think that’s key. That is huge. Just a couple of final questions here. You talked about your numbers and this being The Profit First REI Podcast, let’s talk about that just a little bit. So your team knows your numbers, you know your numbers. How important would you say to the real estate investors listening is it to know the numbers of the business?

Ron Legrand

I would tell you anybody that’s running a business that don’t know their numbers is not going to be in business very long. I don’t care what business it is. I had restaurants. What if I didn’t know what my food cost was when it goes up or when it goes down or my labor? What if I didn’t know what it cost me to advertise and get a customer? I mean, I can’t believe that companies would run them and basically run them out of their checkbook, which is a big pet peeve of yours, I’m sure.

David Richter

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ron Legrand

Because if there’s money in the checkbook, that don’t mean you’re making money.

David Richter


Ron Legrand

And if there’s no money in there, that doesn’t mean you’re not making money either. So I teach my people that you better know what your break even is before the month starts, not wait till it’s over and hope you made some money because that’s going to guide the decisions you make along the way. That means you need to know what your expenses are and what your projected income is. And that’s just a couple of the numbers.

One number that, I mean, just boggles my mind, you go out to any brick and mortar business, they have no idea what it costs them to get a customer or what that customer is worth. They have none. Heck, most of them don’t even know who their customers are, they don’t even collect their names and a contact. What an idiotic … How’re you going to communicate with the people that do business with you, if you don’t even collect their information?

Well, you can rest assured when they came into my restaurant, we shamelessly bribed them into filling out the card and putting them into our club. And that club, every week they got emails with specials, and it worked, brought them in. We communicated with them, make them feel like they’re part of the family. And there’s not a business out there that can’t do that, but they don’t. And it’s not really their fault, just nobody teaches them how to do it. So they just go out and do their thing and do their craft and hope they will come and hope they survive. And of course, most of them don’t. Businesses are dropping like flies out there right now. Aren’t they?

David Richter

Yeah. Yeah. They really are.

Ron Legrand


David Richter

So like you’ve said, I don’t think a lot of businesses learn that. They are just flying by the seat of their pants. Where did you learn to make sure that you knew everyone’s name, you can market to them, you can make sure that they felt like a family?

Ron Legrand

Well, because honestly, when I started in real estate, I didn’t do all of that. But when I started information marketing and actually teaching what I knew in 1987, I knew I had to keep track of who my customers were and then I became an expert on marketing over the years and teach it. And spent I don’t know how many millions of dollars I spent on marketing. It doesn’t much matter anymore, but when you’re in the world of marketing, you learn you better know your numbers or you’re going to get killed real quick.

So that came from there, but it’s inherent in every business that I’ve ever touched since. I mean, I’m not going to work with anybody that can’t tell me what their numbers are because that’s all I want to know, what are our numbers based on that particular business. And if they’re going to hang around me, they better know them.

David Richter

Right? Yeah, no kidding. And thankfully I think shows like Shark Tank, if they’ve watched them where stuff is really put forward of like, yeah, you better know your numbers if you’re going to go in front of a real investor and pitch anything. It’s even more important for your business to be able to just sustain that, to be able to go to the next level or whatever you want to do.

Ron Legrand

How many times did you see people going there, they say, “What’s your cost?” “I really don’t know.” “Well, what’s your spread? What’s your margin?” “I’m not sure.” Give me a break. See, that’s the kind of mentality that one better … Very clearly, you’re either going to get trained to do the business before you get into the business or you’re going to get trained after. And trust me, if you don’t get trained before you get in it, you’re probably not going to be in it long. And that’s how most people learn how to run a business. They go through several of them along the way.

David Richter

Exactly. They learn via mistakes, failures, and then, hey, get back on the horse.

Ron Legrand

You think education is expensive? Try ignorance.

David Richter

Right? Yes, exactly. Oh man. Are you a reader? Do you like reading? Do you recommend any books to people as you’re out there?

Ron Legrand

I have a stack of books about six feet high.

David Richter


Ron Legrand

Someday I’m going to read them. Sure. In fact, I just got a couple here for Christmas presents and the truth is I am not nearly as avid a reader as I used to be. Something’s really got to be interesting to me to make me read it, but I do like books on tape because I’ll plug them in my car and listen them to them in my car. I can read, I can write as well, and if I write it’s something productive, maybe even a sales letter or something. And when I have the choice … I mean, I’m not saying I don’t read, but I don’t sit around and read books very long because I don’t have the patience for it and there’s always so many other things I could be doing.

David Richter

Right. No, I love that. Take action. The next time, if you’re listening to this now, take action sometimes instead of just sitting down to read and make sure you’re doing something productive. I love that. Producing content versus consuming content.

Ron Legrand

There’s nothing wrong with reading. I mean, I’m certainly not knocking reading.

David Richter

Oh yeah. Yeah. There’s definitely … No, but yeah, I think of that a lot, like is what you’re reading really helping you get to that next level or could you go out and do what it’s talking about right then and go out of there and do that? Awesome. So just a couple last questions. General advice for the real estate investors listening to this, what would you say your best advice to give them right now?

Ron Legrand

I would say be very careful to whom you listen because the whole world is full of people that just don’t have any idea what they’re talking about. And if you’re under the impression that they want you to succeed, quit kidding yourself. I mean, there’s only but a handful of people in your life that want you to succeed and they’re probably under your roof and, or you were birthed from her, one of the two. Everybody else does not want you to succeed. So I don’t care what they say. Think about it, do you want your friends and relatives to succeed and leave you down here wallowing around trying to get by? Internally, you do not. So you should know that and very carefully weed out the stuff that people come at you with.

I mean, look, we’re in a hot market right now, everybody knows that. And of course that gives them a really good excuse for saying, well, this term stuff won’t work in this hot market. Baloney, it absolutely works in this hot market. In fact, we just did a four day event here a couple weeks ago, we did 19 deals for students on terms calling sellers in a live event, their leads that they brought to class. 19 deals and literally that’s two days of three people calling those leads. 19 terms deals all over the country. But it don’t work here. I’ve never done a live event where we did that where we didn’t do deals.

Okay, so you got to call some. My virtual assistants do all the hard work making these closing calls. Asking them three questions is all we do. It takes two, three minutes per call. But every deal is worth 20,000 plus. So compare that to what people do for 20 grand plus and you’ll see this business is hard to beat. Okay, you got to learn a few things, but you got to hang in here. You got to have some grit. Geez, people just want to quit the first time they hit a little old roadblock. What are you going to do that don’t have roadblocks? I don’t know what it is. You want roadblocks, go buy a restaurant. You’ll understand how easy this business is, I’ll tell you that right now.

So got to hang in there. You got to get the proper education. And if you think it’s expensive, it’s absolutely dirt cheap. And I don’t care if you have to go through 2, 3, 4, 5 trainers to get the one that they helps you the most, I get that all the time. Okay, people come to me, rarely do I have somebody come to me that hadn’t been to somebody else first. Like everything else in the world, some you can work with, some you can’t. Some give you information you can work with, some don’t. And I’m not the cure all to everybody, but I can tell you that most of the people out there teaching right now are my students or their students that I’ve taught them real estate and then taught to train on real estate.

David Richter

Right, yeah.

Ron Legrand

You need to go get your education from people that are qualified to render it. And that should probably take a little time and effort on your part to check that out before you go believing all the hype and all the fancy videos. It’s easy to make the fancy videos. It’s not hard to learn what I know over a 40 year period, because you just can’t. You just can’t do it in a few years.

But whether it’s me or whether it’s somebody else pay for the quality education, do not try to get it on your own. It’s going to cost you many, many times more than what anybody charges you for it, regardless of what that number is. And be willing to take and listen, and take good quality advice and then implement it.

And of course the big thing is implementation. You can go to seminars, sit in seminars until your butt hurts, till your ears bleed and your eyes are crossed and that won’t do a bit of good until you come out of there and implement it. That’s what I did on my very first seminar, David, I implemented immediately and I got that first check. I don’t know where I would have been if I didn’t. I’d probably quit like everybody else.

David Richter

Right. Well, I’m glad you didn’t and think there’s thousands and thousands, if not tens of thousands of people, hundreds of thousands that have listened to you and done what you have recommended and turned their life around. So I’m really glad you didn’t. Now, the last question here. You’ve provided a ton of value here, like you always do. What are you working on right now? What seminars are coming up? What webinars? What are you doing, working on now?

Ron Legrand

Well, here I can give all your listeners a place to go to learn the terms business because I went through it step by step, online. It’s ronlegrand.com/terms. Spell my name right. It’s L-E-G-R-A-N-D, not L-A, there’s no E on the end. ronlegrand.com/terms. And there’s a whole hour and I think 15 minute online training on that. And I take you right on through that from beginning to end. You’ll see where the money’s made in terms and that should excite you. If it don’t excite you, play it again, because you slept through half of it.

I’m doing commercial projects with my commercial mastermind group, got several of those working right now. I want more. Then I’m always looking for single family house deals with our students. I partner with them if they need the money for those who are in our mentoring program. And then we’re working on growing Global Publishing this coming year, much bigger than it was in the past.

And then I’ve got a whole bunch of classic cars at my house that I work on to keep me busy. I don’t have anything to do much. And I work on them at night and basically, it ain’t for money. Trust me, it ain’t for the money. But I buy a few, sell one now and then, and I just enjoy driving them. All of us old people like old things.

David Richter

That’s awesome. And there you go, that’s how you can get a hold of him, get that terms training, get your life turned around. Wherever you are right now, make sure you can go out there, listen to Ron’s stuff. He’s done this, helped so many people. So really appreciative of him coming on, giving his time, making sure that you as a listener can get that and get in there, implement, like he said at the end. Implement, implement, that’s really what separates the people with excuses, from the people who go out there and blow through those excuses as well too. So make sure you follow that advice. Ron-

Ron Legrand


David Richter

Yeah, go ahead.

Ron Legrand

One thing before we go. When you do this and you actually get your first or your next check, you got to send me a testimonial letter. It is required. It’s in federal law, passed in early 2018. So you must send me a testimonial. I’ll put you on our wall in our building. We’ve got testimonials all over the building. I mean, they’re on our walls. They take the place of wallpaper.

David Richter


Ron Legrand

So I would love to add you to it. And it’s been my pleasure to be here, David. It’s been fun working with you and I hope we’ve done something to increase the value of the lives that you touch.

David Richter

Yeah. You really have today and would love to continue that. You can find more of these episodes at simplecfo.wpengine.com, and the book Profit First for Real Estate Investing. But this has been another amazing episode. Thank you so much again, Ron.

Ron Legrand

Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to today’s show. If you found this episode valuable, could you do me a quick favor? Could you give us an honest rating within iTunes. And be honest, you could say whether you liked it or not. And obviously with iTunes, the more reviews and ratings we have, the better it is for other people that are searching for a profit first in a podcast. So we’d love to be ranked on there and that’s thanks to your help. So we would really appreciate that if you would like to go give us a rating.

Also, if you’re looking to connect with us further, I would highly recommend checking out our Facebook group, Profit First for Real Estate Investors. And that’s literally what it’s called. So you can type in Profit First for Real Estate Investors and you’ll be able to find our Facebook group right there. So come join active real estate investors who are supporting each other and growing their businesses and profits together. That’s what that group is all about. The links should be in the description below.

And if you’re interested in working with us and implementing profit first in your real estate business, we offer coaching and guidance. So if you want to work with someone who’s actually Profit First certified and who works right now currently with real estate businesses, you can actually go start your application process by going to simplecfo.wpengine.com/apply, or just go right to simplecfo.wpengine.com and there’s an apply button right on there, if you want to actually start your Profit First journey with someone who can actually walk you through those step by step and help you know and grow your cashflow.

Thanks again for joining us for another episode of The Profit First REI Podcast. See you next episode.


If you Want HELP
implementing Profit First...

Our team of experts would love to help you

make and keep more money in your business!

Click below to book a
no-obligation discovery call:

Title: “Realize Your REI Potential with Jennifer Steward: Authenticity, Profitability, and Consistency”

Episode: 240

In this episode of Profit First for REI podcast, we are sitting down with Jennifer Steward of REI Data Source, to unveil the secret weapon you’ve been missing: authenticity. 

Jen will crack the code on how to project a winning image that seals the deal…But wait, there’s more! Learn the top revenue activities every entrepreneur should master and discover the power of consistent strategies to solve your REI problems.

This episode is your blueprint to a thriving virtual business. Don’t miss out!

Key Takeaways:

[0:50] Introducing Jennifer Steward

[6:07] Project an image of success from

time to time

[9:16] Some best revenue activities that every entrepreneur should know

[11:00] Leveraging every avenue that you can, get consistency, and make sure you’re solving current problems

[17:43] The golden ratio in social media marketing is: 90% business and 10% personal

[25:02] The benefits of running a virtual business


[4:20] “Authenticity is like a business repellant.”

[10:09]  “In a market where you can’t dind deals but there’s plenty of money, you have to be the person who knows how to find the deals.” 

Connect with Jennifer:

REI Data Source Website: https://www.reidatasource.net 

Jen’s Email: jen@reidatasource.net 

Phone Number: (469) 952-8011

Tired of living deal to deal? 

If you are a real estate investor or business owner who is tired of living deal to deal and want to double your profits, head over here to book your no-obligation discovery call with me. Either myself or someone from my team will hop on a short call with you to get clear on your business goals, remove any obstacles holding you back, and map out a game plan to help you finally start keeping more of the money you work so hard to make. – David


Speaker 1 (00:00):

You need to just be able to solve the seller’s problem and just start with one exit strategy that you’re really confident in. And then once you master that, expand from there. And like you and I talked about, it’s who not how you don’t have time. Most likely to master all of those. So have a referral partner that you can build a relationship with and trust.

Speaker 2 (00:23):

If you’re a real estate investor who’s sick and tired of living deal to deal, then welcome home. Hear from everyday real estate investors just like you, and discover how they’ve completely transformed their business by taking a profit First approach. This is the profit first for REI podcast, where we believe revenue is vanity. Profit is sanity. It’s time to start making profit a habit in your business. So here’s your host, David Richter.

Speaker 3 (00:50):

Today we have Jennifer Stewart on which she is a go-getter. She’s out there, she’s doing lots of things. She’s in the cold calling space. She’s also a real estate investor. But then she’s also someone who I think has gone through a lot in her life and has come out on the other side stronger. And you can tell just from what she talks about and what she sees as the most successful real estate investors, what they do on a daily basis, on a monthly basis, it’s just good bottom line stuff to help you if you want to become someone who’s consistent in business, no matter what the market is doing. So I think this is going to be a really good episode. She gets into the nitty gritty and also just helping you get to where you want to be and making more money as a entrepreneur. Jennifer, welcome to the Profit First REI podcast. I’m so excited you’re here today.

Speaker 1 (01:37):

David, thank you so much for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this all weekend. What a great way to spend a Tuesday at noon and thank you. Thank you so much for having me today.

Speaker 3 (01:47):

Yeah, well I’m excited because we dance around in these different groups and we’re going to these events and you’re speaking a lot, you’re helping a lot of people out there, and I see you as someone who’s just very much, I hope this comes across, but just a very mature human being that has gone through a lot, but you haven’t just been a victim. You’ve been someone who said, I’m going to grow from what I’ve gone through, and that’s what I’ve just observed. And then honestly, there’s lots of my friends that respect you a lot too. I’ve gotten to know you well, so I’m excited about this one. So many things that I feel like we could go down, lots of roads here. So again, thank you for being on the show.

Speaker 1 (02:25):

I appreciate that. That’s very generous and kind observation. I think mature is a very polite word and I am just kind of overwhelmed with that kind assessment.

Speaker 3 (02:37):

Yeah, well, I don’t want to use any rude words for you here today, so we’re going to dive into it. No, but seriously I do. I see as someone who takes a lot of those lessons and applies them right away. I would also say too that you are not scared about sharing what you’ve learned and what you’ve gone through. Where do you get that deep sense of truth to share exactly what’s going on? And I don’t know if you’re a fan of the office or if you’ve ever seen that show. I like the Office, if you like the office. Where is it? I think it’s Kelly’s, Dayton, Daryl, and she says, he said, who says exactly what they’re thinking? What kind of game is that? And I’m like, that is Jennifer to a t. And I’m just wondering how did you get that as part of you? Because I think it’s so genuine, authentic, and it brings more people to you and they resonate. You’re saying what they’re scared to say.

Speaker 1 (03:30):

My business advisors have told me to do the opposite. They said

Speaker 3 (03:36):

Genuine, sorry. That’s great. Basically the

Speaker 1 (03:38):

More money you’re going to make, you have to play the game. And so what I’ll do, David being totally transparent, is I’ll turn that on and off depending on my revenue. So I know that sounds hilarious probably, but if my revenue gets lower, I will turn off the authenticity to a certain extent and go back into my polite game, the system mode. But whenever income is plentiful, I’ll go back to being more my authentic sharing self because number one, sometimes I get more business than I can possibly ever take down, and that’s overwhelming. And so I find that authenticity is like a business repellent, but it’s so much, it’s so stressful for me to be fake. It’s so stressful for me to be something I’m not. And that’s me being a little bit funny, but also kind of realistic as a business woman. And then there’s me as a person who has a soul and that person wants to connect. That person realizes that I’m not just here to make money, I am here to help people who are suffering. And I know that sounds cheesy and cliche, but it’s true. And lemme tell you, I don’t want to be one of those people who are suffering. So I will switch into a mode that is more polished, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (05:09):

That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (05:10):

Because I don’t want to starve. And so I do kind of go back and forth between, okay, I need to dial it back. And I think that people notice that if I was just all the time talking about what a person can overcome or the deep parts of our why and our feelings, then I think that would really drive away a lot of business. I’ve seen people who got up on stage and talked about aligning the chakras and they were never invited back. So you have to find a balance between being a compelling human who helps people overcome these internal struggles that we likely all face, especially as entrepreneurs, depression, anxiety, slow times debt overhead, really painful things that will keep up at night and destroy your health and destroy your relationships. And then we also need to focus on, unfortunately we have to project an image of success from time to time because I’ll tell you, I always get the most business whenever I’m on vacation, I can actively ask people to leave me alone while I’m on vacation.


And that’s whenever I get all the messages for, Hey, I want to do business with you. Because they see the success, they see that it works. When really that’s I’m spending the money, that’s whenever I’m the least successful because I’m not putting time into my business and the dollars are just flying out the window like someone who has an open wound. And so it’s funny because it’s whenever you’re doing the best that it doesn’t show, and whenever I’m making the most money, it’s usually whenever I look the worst, I haven’t had time to groom myself. I’m probably still wearing pajamas that day. And so it’s almost always the opposite as to who has money and who doesn’t. So the person you see with the super nice house and the super nice car, those people have confided in me, Hey, I have so much pressure, I feel like I’m going to lose it.


But those are the people that look up to and respect. And so that being said, David, if I was financially independent, 100% I would be genuine and deep and all the time, if that makes sense. It would be like, Hey, when you woke up today, did you thank God for just waking up? And what are some ways that you can lower your overhead? What are some ways you can increase revenue? Are you wasting time on non-revenue generating activities? Are you doing too much stuff for free? Those of us who are in real estate, I think we do too many things for free. And like you and I talked about, it’s not just your expenditures that are on your books, it’s also the expenditures that are on your time. And so I talked to my attorney last week about dropping non-revenue generating businesses that just aren’t converting because there’s hope in one hand and there’s numbers in the other.


And after a certain amount of time, you need to realize which businesses are covering for the businesses that are taking a loss. And so my lawyer kind of sat me down and I know you do this, and we had to look at which businesses are just not generating and which are carrying the ones that aren’t. And he said, just focus on the ones that are. And so that being said, whenever we wake up every day, if we are our real selves all day, it usually doesn’t translate into revenue. But when I have the luxury of being myself, David, I always want to reduce the suffering of others because that’s kind of all I’ve done my whole life is I’ve had to overcome and overcome and overcome and overcome to a degree that just feels, it could feel really unlucky if I let myself go there. But instead of feeling unlucky, I have to see the opposite side of it. So for all the extremely low probability things that happened to me, there’s also extreme low probability things that happened for me. And you have to see both.

Speaker 3 (09:11):

Right. That’s really good. That is really good. So since we’ve gone down this road, and especially for the real estate investors listening, what would you say are some of the best revenue producing activities they could be doing or that you see in your own life that you do that translates into that

Speaker 1 (09:29):

You have to fill a niche that nobody else is filling? You have to see a problem that everyone is facing a hitch in the giddy up that’s keeping everyone from making money. What I’m noticing right now, for example, people don’t have the money for down payments on their loans. So like we mentioned before the call, I’m offering a program where you can do a hundred percent financing as long as you’re one of my cold calling clients. And it blew up because people don’t have the money for a down payment right now, and my cold callers really aren’t that expensive. And so it solves that problem for them. And in the past, the biggest problem was finding deals. And in a market where you can’t find deals, but there’s plenty of money, then you have to be the person who knows how to find the deals.


And so you have to find what’s keeping people from making money today in the current market and then really, really leverage your social media and go speak, like you and I talked about before, go speak on those topics, mention it on social media, put it in your stories, tell people what you do, and then be really consistent with your message because people are watching, they want to see consistency. And it’s like my lawyer taught me, who’s Jeff Watson? If they see you being erratic and all over the place and not consistent in your message, then people don’t trust that they can go to you to solve these problems. And so that’s the big key is leveraging your social media and being really consistent in your message and making sure that you’re solving the problems of today. So those three things, consistency, solving the current problems and just making sure that you’re leveraging pretty much every avenue that you can.


And of course, always want to be competent and run an ethical business because you can spend 10 years building a reputation. And if you hire one bad employee or someone who makes you look bad or doesn’t deliver for a client, unfortunately bad news spreads like wildfire and just whatever you’re buying on Amazon, you’re going to pay more attention to the bad review than the good reviews because we’re looking for to avoid pain for good reasons. I mean, some things could take us out and set us back a decade if we make the wrong investment. And so it’s really, really important in a capital intensive business what we’re in to be someone who’s trustworthy, competent with very high integrity. Like you and I talked last week and I told you, I was like, Hey, I can’t be consulting on a topic that I don’t know about. Thank you for the inquiry. But that would be horribly unethical. And you have to do that. You have to turn down the fast money for the long-term play of having high integrity.

Speaker 3 (12:18):

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. That’s really good. I think that’s consistency, solving the problem for today and then getting the message out. So those are three steps there. And I think that’s where it’s like, it’s so simple, but it’s like that number one, you got to do it consistently and you got to move to where the market is. So I think that’s really good stuff because I can’t agree more because I think, do you think that a lot of real estate investors build themselves into a box and then when that solving the problem of what they used to do doesn’t solve it anymore, that they have a hard time pivoting to something that will and bring the revenue? Yeah,

Speaker 1 (12:57):

I mean you have your fast movers, your highly networked people who are poised to move, but for anyone who doesn’t want to hustle 24 7, it’s hard to pivot like that. I mean, at some point, I think human beings, we all want consistency, predictability. And one thing that’s really tough about this business, and I’m sure everyone notices, is how fast paced it really is. Now, if we were in the paper business, for example, David, how much do you think things change? Speaking of office space or not office space, the

Speaker 3 (13:35):

Office office,

Speaker 1 (13:36):

Yeah, yeah. I mean if we’re a paper company, how often do you think the industry changes? Right.

Speaker 3 (13:42):

It doesn’t really change. I don’t know.

Speaker 1 (13:44):

I mean maybe a paper guy comes and messages us and said, oh, you wouldn’t believe.


But it seems like from the outside looking in that real estate, every day there’s some new gimmicky stuff and you’re just like, I can’t handle this. I need to step away because I can’t handle one more gimmick. I can’t handle one more big change. It’s difficult. And so I think knowing the fundamentals, because I know people who make big money just using a yellow pad for their CRMs still, and some of these people are big names, and I don’t think he’d mind me saying, Adam Johnson, Leon Johnson’s son, he does a lot of deals just using a yellow pad. Courtney Frickey, she has her paper leads that she keeps in a file and only goes through them if she needs to. So a lot of these gimmicks just really aren’t the real deal. The real deal is not necessarily what software you’re using, it’s where are we in the market, are there more deals than money or is there more money than deals?


Those are really the main two shifts that if you pay attention to those in the market, you’re good. And people was like, oh, I do this with AI and I do that with ai. I haven’t seen AI do anything really amazing except for Google search type stuff. I mean, I’ve listened to the AI calls and they’re still not that great yet. And I keep hearing people say, oh, AI is going to be doing our acquisition management soon. Well, yes, true, but when I haven’t seen it yet and still, which problem is it solving the low money problem or the low inventory problem? And right now I think it’s market to market. It’s kind of like mushrooms and in certain markets we still have an inventory problem and other markets are more of a buyer’s market and we have more of a money problem. So you have to take it market by market, city by city and see which problem are you solving. Those are really the main two problems in real estate. And what I’ve seen is everything else is a marketing gimmick. As someone who does marketing myself, we try to repackage it to get people’s attention, but it’s kind of all the same stuff.

Speaker 3 (15:59):

Yeah, no, that makes sense. So would you say then the people like Adam and the people like Courtney, are those three things that you mentioned before consistent solve the problem for today and then the media and the messaging is that their key to success and as long as they’re consistent doing, what’s really is that or is there something that makes them different just because they go out there, and I love how you said with their CRM is a yellow legal pad, it’s none of the fancy stuff and all that where a lot of people get trapped in that rabbit hole. So that’s where my I’m wondering, yeah,

Speaker 1 (16:31):

Courtney’s really consistent on Instagram and she gets a lot of referrals. And Adam’s been in his market for 20 years, so he gets a lot of referrals. So you talk about consistency, it’s decades of consistency in Adam’s case, and Courtney has been doing it I think for 10 years, and she really gets out there in terms of, she speaks in front of realtors groups, she speaks at rhe, she holds her radio show, and she’s very consistent in her branding. She doesn’t just show herself boating on the weekend or shopping or whatever. And if you look back through her Instagram, you can see that in the past she did have more of showing her personal life. And Connor Steinbrook taught me, don’t show your personal life, just make your entire page about business. But there is one caveat to that. You don’t want to look like one of those VA generated pages where there’s no real person behind it.

Speaker 3 (17:23):


Speaker 1 (17:24):

Looks like a VA just runs my page and it’s just my VA who does everything. So I do post pictures of my family and going to the gym, and if I do go on vacation, I do post that. But too much of it makes people think you’re not available for business. So I would say the golden ratio that I’ve discovered is about 90% business and 10% personal, just to add that speckle of reality that you are a real person and not a va. And I think Courtney does that very well on her Instagram for example, and she doesn’t even have to spend money on marketing. She told me she doesn’t do that anymore. She’s a hundred percent referral based now and it’s taken being consistent

Speaker 3 (18:04):

And she does a lot of creative deals or that’s all she does is the creative type deals. She

Speaker 1 (18:10):

Does kind of everything. I know her to do flips, I know her to do. She’s mostly a buy and hold investor and she will do creative when she needs to. But I think I’ve had a lot of clients come to me over the years and try to curate a marketing plan where all we do is creative for them. And that is really tough. You’re going to have a low ratio of being able to do that. Typically creative should be something that comes organically from time to time. If you make that your only goal, and this was a guy with a lot of money, by the way, the one I’m thinking of. He had so much money, yet he was super focused on just doing creative. And I understand if someone has no money and they’re just focused on doing creative, but they get it in their head that this is the way to do it and there is no the way to do it.


You have to just solve the problem of the current seller who wants to sell, whether it’s a listing, whether it’s innovation, whether it’s a flip, whether it’s a wholesale, whether it’s long-term buying hold subject to seller finance, and anything else I’m missing in there. It shouldn’t just be, oh, I’m going to pull this list and I’m just going to do ovations or I’m going to do this campaign. I’m just going to do subject two. You need to just be able to solve the seller’s problem and just start with one, this is something I’ve taught for years. Just start with one exit strategy that you’re really competent in. And then once you master that, expand from there, and like you and I talked about, it’s who not how you don’t have time most likely to master all of those. So have a referral partner that you can build a relationship with and trust for innovations for subject to maybe even for seller financing or maybe master two, but mastering all of the above would be insanity. Even if you had been doing this for 50 years like Leon Johnson, that would be insanity. So be ready to leverage joint venture partners that you can trust with the right paperwork behind it. Of course.

Speaker 3 (20:02):

Would you say that if you go down that road, can you build a business like that? Meaning where a business is systems and other people where eventually you have a business that runs itself or runs it with the people in the processes you’ve put in place. It seems like with real estate, like you’re saying, I have to solve the seller’s problem right then and there. So it almost sounds like you need at those higher level people, you can’t just get the McDonald’s line worker that’s there or the robot or AI or something like that. That’s

Speaker 1 (20:33):

The challenge that I’ve run into. And I feel like conceptually it can be done, but then in psychology we have something called channel factors, these little things that get in the way of what sounds good on paper. And that’s usually where the human element comes in because I have staff of 180 people in my agency and I’ve learned little tricks to managing them. For example, this is going to sound weird, I don’t do company meetings because I just meet with them as I need to. I do spend a lot of time with them upfront, maybe a few hours, and then I never talk to them again except to tell them when a job has come in. And if they need more than that, they’re probably not a good fit. And I don’t do group meetings because I’ve had them all group up against me in the past to raise wages, basically wanting to unionize whenever my clients can’t afford that.


And I said, I’ll let the whole company burn down before I let you extort me in this way. And I did. And I did it privately. I didn’t tell anyone. I didn’t go public about it, but I just stopped the company for six months and just traveled. And it’s like I have plenty of money. And then they were suffering. And then once I was done traveling, they were like, Jen, please, please, I’ll come back. So who would think that there’s a human variable of needing to stop people from organizing against you, or it’s like Adam Johnson says, you have to make sure that you’re always in the way of a deal in order to get it done. So that’s why you can’t fully replace yourself for the most part unless you sell the company, is because at some point somewhere you need to add value. And yes, you can have an integrator, and yes, you can have a CEO, and yes, you can have a CFO, et cetera, but if you notice even in a C class corporation, you still have shareholders.


The shareholders are still in the way in some way because they own a part of the company. So no matter what, you have to make sure that you’re in the way of other people just taking over completely what you do and just pushing you out. And so that is the challenge. That’s where replacing, that’s what no one talks about. Everyone wants to sell these sexy business models where you’re just on the beach or whatever, but at some point you have to put yourself between yourself and someone else to make sure you’re still adding value or you’re just going to get pushed out. So another example is, I mean, you can just live like my older gentleman, friends who just own a bunch of mutual funds and they don’t manage anything. They just collect checks from the dividends, but you have to have millions in order to achieve that.


Lemme tell you, those are the people who have the most passive income that I’ve seen, and I know this is an REI podcast, but what’s great about real estate is you can start with a relatively small amount of money and then with appreciation, leverage that into millions, and then you can become the mutual fund, the note owner or your kids can get your portfolio, but it’s not as passive as just having your mutual fund dividends come in and as know the stock market goes up and down where rents typically, there’s not as much fluctuation in rents as there is in the stock market. And so all that being said, going back to what you asked, whenever you’re managing staff, there’s just going to be all these psychological factors that are not going to present themselves on paper with your staff is always the biggest challenge in running a company.


And so that’s why I don’t do company meetings because that’s whenever people get together, and pardon my language, I think it’s a poignant word. They start bitching and then that causes morale issues. All it takes is one person to start griping and then morale goes way down. And I don’t care how well you run your company, I don’t care if you are like you have in the background, I don’t care if you’re Mr. Rogers, as soon as someone starts griping and it takes hold, it’s game over. This doesn’t work if you run a brick and mortar business. But I have doctor friends, for example. They run brick and mortar businesses, and one of my doctor’s friends two weeks ago, his entire staff just walked out. They’ve been with them for 20 years and they couldn’t have organized like that if you keep them separate. If you’re running a virtual business, that’s one of the benefits is you can manage your staff. And I tell you, that has made my income extremely passive.


So if you take nothing else away from this by keeping my staff separated, I have generated true passive income for myself because all I do is bring the jobs, bring the clients, they work the clients, and then they do a good job and then I’m out. The only thing I have to do is keep bringing in new clients because there is always going to be some small amount of attrition no matter how good of a job you do for various reasons. So yeah, if you have a virtual business, keep your staff separate and that way they’re not coming together. And it’s amazing how peaceful things are. I have no drama. I have no complaints. I’ve known go well. so-and-so did this, and so-and-so said this, and so-and-so gets paid this and I want to get paid this. It’s like I have literally zero drama in my agency with my staff now, and that has just been amazing.

Speaker 3 (26:03):

Yeah, that’s the first time I’ve heard it put like that of keeping separate in that you don’t run meetings and you don’t get them together, which is very anti, a lot of the books out there and a lot of those systems and stuff that have the organizational meetings and that type of stuff, level 10 meetings or the level 10 meetings and all that, that goes along with it. So I love hearing a contrarian viewpoint, especially for someone who runs a virtual business like that and who’s gone through almost like you said, the utilization of that type of stuff. Yeah, I’ve been this for

Speaker 1 (26:37):

Six years, and so that’s enough time to where you’ve passed some task, kissed a lot of frogs and had every problem under the sun.

Speaker 3 (26:44):

Yeah, yeah, no kidding. So that’s very interesting. Well, this has been a lot of fun. I love the answers that you’ve given. I think there’s some really good value there too with being consistent, solving today’s problem and getting it out there, being consistent of getting out your message as well too. I also like that what you just went over that was so contrary to what other people say. That was really an interesting take. I want to, and I

Speaker 1 (27:10):

Would bet you my headaches are much smaller than theirs,

Speaker 3 (27:14):

Probably. Probably. I mean, well, most people have the headaches in business, and if you just have less than them that it probably wouldn’t take much if you just had just that many less. So that’s great. I love hearing that. What I wanted to talk

Speaker 1 (27:29):

Authentic draws better clients too. I did want to share that because I know I went on a bit of a rant and a ramble about that, but let me be pointing on one point is that by being my real self, David against my business advisor’s advice, the clients I have now, I have no drama with and I don’t know why I’m not smart enough, I guess to know why. But the ones who come to me whenever I’m going through times of being very authentic and just really sharing whatever it is, whatever business problems or personal problems that I may be facing and how I’m overcoming them, I get so many people, like you said, who may not do business immediately and it scares off a lot of people. But the clients who do come to me, we have no problems, no drama. They don’t blame me for a lack of success.


They just come in, show up, close their deals, and they stay long-term customers. So that is one benefit is I get fewer clients, but the ones that I do get, I have zero drama with, and we’re so simpatico that I work hard to make sure they’re successful and they don’t. Whenever I was being inauthentic and getting a lot more clients, we don’t have meetings about Jennifer, why am I spending this money and not getting any deals and then this, and they’re just being very nitpicky, but clients where I’m my authentic self, they come in and they just close deals, David, we don’t have to have awkward meetings that make me feel like crap about myself, feeling like I’m not really actually helping anyone and I’m just charging money and nothing’s happening for them. They come in and they’re like, Hey, Jen, I did this deal. I did this deal. Your staff is great. And so that was a crazy change to me. I thought, this is self-destructive behavior being this authentic, but I just felt compelled to actually help people. And then these clients are the most low maintenance clients I’ve ever had. So I would be curious what your take is on that in terms of why is it being authentic? First off, it’s interesting. It draws in less clients, but the ones that does draw in, I have zero drama, zero problems with, and they stay with me forever,

Speaker 3 (29:36):

Which is funny because what you’re describing now is in those books that tell you to have the meetings, it’s like it’s your core values. It’s the values that are shining through that. It’s people that resonate with you as a human being. So usually they’re going to be the ones, especially if you’re being authentic and being open and honest and sharing values that are just as a society, we look at and say, it’s mature what you’re doing. You draw those mature people in, so it’s like they’re going to be the ones that sit back, they do the deals, they get it done, and then they come to you and they be like, yeah, let’s keep moving forward. And that’s the low drama because projecting that out there as well too, just from what I can observe right there. But I really like that because very much of if you’re going to be yourself, you might bring in less, but you might bring more of the people that you want to work with. That’s what I took away from makes income

Speaker 1 (30:26):

More passive because that is always my goal. Low drama staff, low drama clients where we’re just doing deals. I’m providing excellent staff who are going to make sure that you’re getting in front of as many people as possible for as little money as possible, talking to those motivated sellers, getting good prices on data, getting good prices on your loans to close your deals, and just keep it simple. There shouldn’t be any insanity. There shouldn’t be a lot of complaints and craziness. And that’s not to say there’s never problems, but when there are, it’s like, Hey, Jen, we need to have a meeting because this caller’s gotten a little too lax and they’re just becoming too rote and they’re going through the motions too much. I had to have that call three months ago, but guess what? He didn’t leave. He didn’t blame. He said, Hey, let’s just fix, let’s just fix their script.


And so I told her, I said, Hey, you’re one of my best, and maybe you’re working too long hours. Maybe you need to take more breaks. Maybe we need to load you up with fewer clients because instead of listening to the seller, you are kind of just pushing through the script. I said, someone who started out cold calling myself, I noticed I would do that towards the end of my shift. And I said, so let’s just be aware that that’s what’s going on. But I didn’t blame or shame her. I just said, Hey, because I was sitting in that seat myself for so many years, David is a cold caller. I know what problems they face, and it makes me a better manager for them. And just say, Hey, it just sounds like you’re getting a little tired. And so take a 30 minute nap, take an hour nap and come back and you’ll see how all of a sudden, instead of just pushing through a script, you’re really an active listener.


But that’s the only problem client meeting I had to have in the last six months where before God, David, it seemed like it was every day. People were just pinging me with this is a problem and that’s a problem. This is a problem. And I think that’s what led to my heart attack last year at 38 years old, was just having all these clients with all these complaints and it was just driving me crazy. And now I don’t have any of that. And so just sharing my experience, whether it’s true or false or somewhere in between. It’s just my anecdotal experience.

Speaker 3 (32:36):

Well, no, that’s really good. I wish we more time, but I’m going to land the plane here. We’ll have to do another episode too about how you got through that and coming out on the other side. But if people want to get ahold of you for your cold calling and what you’re doing there and how would they get ahold of you if they want to start to work with

Speaker 1 (32:54):

You? Yeah, whether it’s the cold calling or like I said, the loans where we’re offering a hundred percent financing on both the rehab and purchase price. If they’re my cold calling client, they can just email me at jen, JEN at rre I data source.net. I’m also a really brave person who gives out my cell phone because as a cold caller, I’m not afraid to call you. You

Speaker 3 (33:18):

Can call me,

Speaker 1 (33:19):

I may think you’re a spam call and answer a little bit briskly, but my cell phone is (469) 952-8011. Feel free to call me there or Jen at REI data source.net.

Speaker 3 (33:32):

Cool. So that’s how you could get ahold of Jen, and that’s the email. And she gave your phone number as well too, so you could call her in and say, Hey, hey, just wanted to see if you answer the phone. I’m sure you will. Like you said, who does that? Right? Who? Their cell phone. Cell phone. And then who does that? And then actually answers too. I feel like today’s age, please go to voicemail. So that was good stuff. Lots of valuable information here, stuff that you could take and I think implement right away to become these type of people out there that are consistently successful. And that’s one of their keys to success is being consistent in solving today’s problem, building the message around that as well too. I really liked your insight of the type of client you draw in when you are your authentic self versus where you might get more, but it might be more headaches if you are not. So it’s like just lots of good practical things today. So that was a lot of good stuff. Thank you for sharing, Jen. I really appreciate all that you did here today.

Speaker 1 (34:26):

I appreciate it. David, thank you so much for having, thanks for asking great questions.

Speaker 3 (34:30):

And I wanted to say too, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m not making enough or whatever, first of all, call Jen, you can literally call her. She gave you her number. She can help you make more money if you need to keep the money too. If you’re like, I have no idea where my money’s going, don’t know what my overhead is, don’t know how much I’m making, how much I’m keeping, or I want to keep more, you can reach out to us@simplecfo.com. We want to help you get at least that stuff in place because if you don’t have any idea, you’re not running a business. So that’s where I want to help you at least be consistent in knowing where your money’s going too. That’s another consistency factor as well too there. But Jen, again, thank you so much for coming on and sharing, and if there’s anything that you need from Jen, you know how to get ahold of her. She gave you the email address and her phone number. Again, thank you so much for coming on today.

Speaker 2 (35:17):

This episode of The Profit First for REI podcast is over, but there are plenty more where that came from. Are you ready to learn how David and his team can help implement the Profit First system in your business? Schedule a discovery call@simplecfo.com right now. We’ll see you next time on The Profit First for REI podcast with David Richter.