The Benefit of Profit First for Real Estate Investors with Aryeh Sheinbein

Episode 121: The Benefit of Profit First for Real Estate Investors with Aryeh Sheinbein


The Profit First REI Podcast

October 17, 2022

David Richter



Aryeh Sheinbein has done stocks, real estate, business buying, syndications, and more. He started with investment banking after graduating with a finance degree, and from there, built an impressive portfolio and even more impressive well of knowledge and experience.

Aryeh Sheinbein’s expertise gives us profound insight into understanding numbers, cashflow and profit, and why implementing Profit First is a tremendous benefit to your business.

Key Takeaways:
[00:51] Aryeh Sheinbein and His Background

[03:51] How Aryeh Sheinbein Started on Money

[08:07] On Profit First

[13:52] The Benefit of Profit First for Real Estate Investors 

[18:58] The Key Indicators in Finances to Look Out For 

[22:38] The Concept of Product Agnosticism

[26:48] Advice for Real Estate Investors

[22:44] His Advice for the Real Estate Community


[09:42] “The biggest driver isn’t revenue, isn’t profits–it’s cashflow.”

[16:08] “You need to understand where the money is.”

[27:09] “Whether you want to be in the stock market, or whether you want to be in real estate [you have to ask yourself]…Are you creating a new job for yourself? Or are you actually creating some sort of passive income?”


Aryeh’s Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/aryehthebusinessman/?hl=en

The Investment for Wealth Coaching Program: solutionadvisory.com

Inside the Lion’s Den Podcast https://insidethelionsdenpodcast.com/

Profit First Real Estate Investors FB Group-https://m.facebook.com/groups/ProfitFirstREI/ 

Simple CFO-https://simplecfo.com/ 

Tired of living deal to deal? 

If you are a real estate investor or business owner who is tired of living deal to deal, and want to double your profits, head over here to book your no-obligation discovery call with me. Either myself or someone from my team will hop on a short call with you to get clear on your business goals, remove any obstacles holding you back, and map out a game plan to help you finally start keeping more of the money you work so hard to make. – David 


Aryeh Sheinbein:

A lot of the people really don’t understand their numbers because they look at it so simplistically, they’re like, Okay, I bought something for $10, I sold it for $30. There was another $10 of hard costs, so I net $10 a profit. And you’re like, Okay, but now you actually have to rebuy new inventory and you’ve re the cash went right back in. Where’s your profit? Like, where did that $10 go?


If you’re a real estate investor who’s sick and tired of living deal to deal, then welcome home. Hear from everyday real estate investors just like you, and discover how they’ve completely transformed their business by taking a Profit First approach. This is the Profit First for REI podcast, where we believe revenue is vanity, profit is sanity. It’s time to start making Profit a habit in your business. So here’s your host, David Richter.

David Richter:

Hey everyone and welcome back to the Profit First REI podcast. Have another interesting guest today. We have Aryeh Sheinbein on and he has done quite a bit. We were just talking for the last 10 minutes. So I am excited to have him on today about what he’s done in his past. He’s done some real estate, he’s done investing, he’s done stocks, he buys businesses, he’s done syndications. He’s done a lot of different things in the real estate and outside of real estate as well too. And I believe he’s got a real passion for helping people and not just selling them whatever product that he’s doing. He’s calls himself a product agnostic, so we’ll probably talk about that a little bit today too as well. I’m very excited to have him on. He loves Profit First, so that’s a big plus, especially on this podcast since that’s what we are mainly all about here. But Ra thanks for being on today and thanks for coming on our podcast.

Aryeh Sheinbein:

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

David Richter:

Yeah. Aryeh can you give the audience right now a little bit of your background, cuz we talked about a lot and just the different types of things you’ve been involved in from real estate to stocks to, you know, Wall Street to everything that we talked about.

Aryeh Sheinbein:

Sure. So I went to college, got a finance degree and went straight to Wall Street. So I did the investment banking route. I worked for JP Morgan, and after a couple years I had researched really what I thought I wanted to do, but like anything else, you get there and you’re like, it’s not exactly what I thought it was. But from a skill set and training perspective, it was really not just eye opening, but it was a great skill builder. You know, from there I moved into a, a small investment firm where we made early stage investments, both in, you know, some tech and business services types of companies as well as more established type of businesses over my career to, you know, shorten this and make sure that everybody pays attention so that I don’t bore them with my stuff. You know, I’ve worked at or with some of the largest private equity firms, hedge funds on investments both on the public side and the private side and, you know, through it, out through it all.

 Some of it’s real estate, some of it’s other things, both personally and professionally. I’ve always really drifted and been attracted to non-publicly traded things. I mean, I have a large stock portfolio and I like following stocks, but at the end of the day private companies allow you to have certain levels of control you don’t necessarily have on the public markets, you know, and that’s why, you know, if you read certain books, they’ll talk about Mr. Market being in a good mood, in a bad mood, but it doesn’t mean that the value of Apple Company changed so much overnight. Like one day it’s up 5%, one day it’s down 5% realistically, that’s just the market indication of things. So through it all, like I, I like having like a perspective on the value of things, whether it’s a cash flowing asset like real estate or it’s, you know, a business I’ve been involved in in all kinds of stuff. So hopefully that gives you a little bit of flavor of what I’ve done.

David Richter:

Yeah. So let’s, let’s go backwards from when you got into, you know, what you went to college for. Go a little bit deeper. Where did you first learn about money and what was that thought process like? What, like what took you down that road?

Aryeh Sheinbein:

That’s interesting. So I played a lot of sports when I was a kid, but I also was a big sports card collector. Okay. And by the time, like it started out that when, when I was a kid, the price guide’s Beck was like the, the premier price guide and it wasn’t online. Like it didn’t exist yet. And so this is, you know, I guess I’m dating myself a little bit here. And what I would do was, is because I followed sports, I knew the players who were having good seasons are up and coming and the guides would only come out once a month. And what would happen is is let’s say you had a rookie player that was hot and the cards like may have priced well the first time in, in the publication, but you see that the demand for that player is just gonna be there because they’re having great statistics, they’re having a great season, everybody wants it.

And so basically I would buy or try to accumulate like their cards before the next price guide would come out and maybe even trade for some of it. And typically like you’d go into a store, right? And the store would say, ah, book value is this. And then a lot of times if you wanted to sell to them, they’d be like, Well, we, we, we buy a half book. Like, that was like the standard line that like any dealer would tell you. So I started going to shows and my dad, you know, would kind of drive me around on Sunday to like the different hotels and, and like they had all these car shows, right? And I, I would go to dealers trying to just accumulate things that I thought were going to increase in value and then flip them out if I, once the price guy came out and validated basically my play, and by the time I was like 15, I actually beca I started having tables and selling at some of these shows.

Hmm. and so at the time I didn’t really understand that that became my stock market, but it became my stock market. And so probably around that time my father told me like, Hey, you should probably like look a little bit at some of like, you know, investments or at least put some of your money to work. And, and so I did, like when I was 13, I actually started putting money in like mutual funds mainly index funds, but I didn’t really conceptually understand other than like, it sounded like a good idea because he said like, you know, Hey, this, that the other thing fine. But by the time I got, you know, it was like a senior in high school though, they had like a stock market game for you know, school and like I participated in that and I did well and that really was heading into college.

I was like, I’m going to be a lawyer. I liked, you know, the litigation aspect. I like, you see the movies, you see the tv, this is what it is, right? And of course it’s not right. Like freshman year I had a professor who’s like, Do you like to read? I’m like, Yeah, I’d like to read. They’re like, No, I mean like hours and hours and hours of paper. And I’m like, Yeah, probably not. And they’re like, Well, do you like to just do the same thing and not really deal with a lot of people? And I’m like, Yeah, no, I like people a lot. And he said, I mean he had a, he had a law degree from an Ivy League school and he wasn’t, you know, he wasn’t using that. And he said, You’re gonna hate being a lawyer and I can tell you like, and so honestly the pivot became, Okay, now what?

Right? Like mm-hmm. <Affirmative> unbeknownst to me, I happened to have had a really good mind for business and it just came naturally to me, but I never zoned in on it. And like really honed that fact, people would say things to me cuz I would say, Oh, you should do this or that, or have an idea. But what happened was, I noticed this crazy, I read a Jeffrey Archer fictional book called Can Enable, and basically there was two guys who became like nemesis who came from nothing. And they, one was in the stock market. And I’m like, well, even though I know this was fake, I’m like, well, this dude could do it. Like I could do this. And so that’s it. Like I just started focusing on finance investing, what drive stocks, what, you know, what do the financial statements do. And I happened to have always liked numbers, so it came easily for me. And, you know, that was, that was really like what drove the beginning of the passion.

David Richter:

Wow. That’s awesome. So that’s you see that we have a high caliber person here on this, on this podcast today who’s had quite an experience in the realm of money, finances from college all the way through his professional career too. So we were talking a little bit about like what Profit First and how kind of are introduced to that? Or a specifically the question you like to ask about the three, or I just gave it away <laugh> the answer, but how many financial statements there are and like how that ties in. So can you kind of give that like, the story of how you do that with investors or with other people, but then also like what got you interested in the book and what was, you know, interesting to you about the Profit First methodology?

Aryeh Sheinbein:

Yeah, sure. So I had told David before a story that a lot of times when I would meet with entrepreneurs, I ask the question, how many financial statements are there? And everybody kinda gets the one, right? The p and l would i e the income statement. And you know, some people are like, Oh, you know, there’s that thing some people know it’s called a balance sheet, some people don’t. But, but they know it’s where like the cash resides, right? Like it’s where you see that numbered Now if you have debt, okay, they know it sits there. The idea of equity not so much in a business, like they don’t really get it very, very few, let’s call it one out of every 10 know that there’s a third financial statement. And of that one outta 10, only about 50% of the people actually know it has a name that’s called the cash flow statement.

Now, when I was in college and I was going and I decided I wanted to either be an equity research analyst or I wanted to do investment banking and any of these types of things, you started to prep just like anything else, you started to prep for the interviews. And the big question that you needed to understand was, if you’re going to value a business, if you’re going to value something, what is the biggest driver? And the biggest driver isn’t revenue isn’t profits, it’s cash flow. Hmm. And so to understand that you actually understood how the three financial statements had to work together and understand that the cash flow statement was actually the most critical one because it tells you where the cash is going, where the cash came from, and how much money the business is going to truly generate. Yeah. And, and I think most people, a when they don’t like something, they avoid it.

Right. It’s just natural forget like business just in life, you know, like we procrastinate what we don’t want to do. Like I’m a guilty for it, You know, if my wife is listening to this, she’ll be like cheering. Yes, yes, yes. You procrastinate the things I don’t, you know, <laugh>. But the reality is, a lot of business owners, especially like entrepreneurs who kind of get into things they don’t necessarily they didn’t grow up saying, Okay, I’m going to be a business person, and, and they get a corporate job and then they leave. A lot of people are like, Hey, I don’t, I wanna work for myself, or I have this passion, You know, it’s kind of like emit revisited, you know, Michael Gerber, like, you know, you have a skillset and now you’re trying to mon you become the business person monetizing your skillset.

Right? Right. And what happens is that people are like, Oh, whoa, I don’t wanna deal with my numbers like someone else, like someone else will handle that. Yeah. And so they avoid it. And the, the, the problem with that is like, there’s a lot of important things that are going in there. Now you don’t have to do it, but you just have to like understand it. So when I think about Profit First, I actually think, you know, Mike, in in, in writing the book really did everybody a tremendous favor who didn’t come from like a numbers background or doesn’t really interested in like, you know, his, his reference to like Spock accountants and whatever, Right? Like, I’m not an accountant, but I tell people like, numbers tell me a story. Yeah. And then the objective is like, have the story sound better or look better.

That’s how I think about like my day job in, in valuing businesses. But for the business owner, this just simplified everything. This is like, Hey, we’re gonna take user behavior, we’re going to take how people think about things today, and we’re just gonna keep it the same and make it work for you. Right. So that’s why I, like, I really liked Profit First, but when I got into understanding the cash flows, like back to to college, it actually just started to make a lot of sense of like, okay. And so as I’ve done different things and I have my eCommerce businesses, I’ve always said when I got into them, a lot of the people really don’t understand their numbers because they look at it so simplistically they’re like, Okay, I bought something for $10, I sold it for $30, There was another $10 of hard costs, so I net $10 a profit. And you’re like, Okay, but now you actually have to rebuy new inventory and you’ve re the cash went right back in, Where’s your profit? Like where did that $10 go? Yeah. And they’re like, I don’t know, but I can’t pay my bills. Right. Like <laugh>.

David Richter:

Right. Exactly.

Aryeh Sheinbein:

And so, like this system just allows people to strip away all the noise, all the complexity and just say, Okay, just like, you know, I think he references this, in the book. Like there’s, you know, I’m not per se a Dave Ramsey fan, but the concept of having envelopes for your cash, Right? That’s what this did. It just modernized. Like he definitely mentions this in the book, like he modernized you know, the envelope system. But what it really does is it just allows human behavior not to mess things up. Right. It allows you, you’re already conditioned to do one thing, just keep doing that one thing and, and the money siphons off. And this is why I tell people in investing the same thing. It’s, you know, Parkinson’s law, if you, you know, whatever time and space you have to do something, if I give you a project and you have, you know, two weeks, boom, you’re gonna, you’re gonna take full two weeks.

Even if you think you could do it in two days, and if you tell me it really takes three weeks, you’re gonna get it done. Two weeks investing living off a certain amount. It’s the same thing if I pull that money out. Right. If I take 10% of your $5,000 a month and I pull it out and that, that’s kind of like where the 401k model probably came from. Like you didn’t see it, it didn’t really exist. Right. So you can live off it. Right. You make it work. Yeah. And, and so that’s how I think about like the system works that way and, and so does investing. Investing should be as automatic in, in the similar kind of sense, like once you have the, the money built up.

David Richter:

Awesome. So then real estate investing and the investors listening here, how do you think that the concept of Profit First applies to them? You know, like what does it help them the most? Because, you know, they’re buying assets a lot of times either to buy and hold or like you said you had bought some single families or, you know, fourplexes or up to that or whatnot. What do you think is one of the greatest advantages of using a system like Profit First for the real estate investing world?

Aryeh Sheinbein:

Yeah. So I think it depends, Like, I kind of segregate that into two categories. Yeah. And that is, are you a real estate investor who has another job and this is just kind of like what you’ve done with you’re doing with your money? Yeah. Or is this your job and it’s your primary source of income. And the reason for that is if, if I’m gonna go fix homes, right? And I now have, I basically have a business and some people think about it this way and some people don’t. Like you’ll talk to business owners and they’re like, Oh, well I want to go buy these houses and you know, HGTV made me realize like how much I can, you know, do this and this and this, Right. Or my brother-in-law’s doing this, or my cousin’s dentist, you know, whatever. He left dentistry to do this.

Okay. Understand that. Like, now you have a job, right? Yeah. And so if you’re in that category that like you want this to be a job for you, now the Profit First is totally going to help you because it’s, it’s any other, it’s just like any other business, right? Like your business needs to understand where the cash goes. So you went and you bought this house, whether you use other people’s money or you put some of the money down yourself, plus you may have some other kind of financing. Okay, where is the cash going? And as it comes out, okay, siphon it off because now this is my pot for the next kind of deal. Right? Like, as I’m kind of sweeping it into my Profit First account, that’s super helpful because otherwise people are like, Hey, a mid deal over here and now a new opportunity comes up, the bank account looks flush with cash.

Yeah. So I can go and do it. Turns out I forgot I gotta buy this, this, this, this and this for this, this fix I’m in the middle of and now I’m stuck because like I took that money and I shouldn’t have taken that money. Right? Yeah. So, if you’re doing it that way, it’s hugely valuable because it’s just like any other business, you need to understand where the money is. Yeah. If it’s on the personal investing side, it’s interesting because what happens is, and this is the part that’s interesting about real estate, is people are generally looking for one of two things, right? Appreciation or cash flow, Right. Depending on, on what you’re doing. And if you, if you’re looking for appreciation, obviously there’s not gonna be a lot of returns kind of coming out until you have like some sort of event, whether it’s a refinancing or a sale.

Yeah. And ultimately though, if you are investing on cash flow, the concept that people miss, and this is where I, I kind of try and help like entrepreneurs understand this, is everyone talks about compound interest, compounding growth, compound, compound, compound real estate cash flow is great, but it doesn’t compound. And so if you’re basically, if you think about things a little bit in a Profit First mindset, like when that cash flow comes in, it should basically go to your Profit First account. Right. Because now it has to get redeployed. Yep. And, and so like I remember like my dad who got me into stocks originally, right? When he started looking at real estate deals and he would start, you know, showing me getting my views and thoughts on things I said to him, I said, Well how much money do you have to invest? Like, what’s the allocation to real estate?

And he is like, I don’t know, you know, like I have this, I have that. Like, it was all almost like willy nilly. Yeah. You know? And I said, Okay, well what happens to the distributions that you get quarterly from the other deals? He’s like, Well it goes into this bank account. I’m like, But but that’s like your, your operating bank, you know, basically your, your lifestyle operating account. And it’s like, yeah, so I use it if I need it. And I’m like, now the whole thing’s not growing, you know? And so I basically had him redo some of the stuff just to say, listen, the investment world, like, and this is what I did, like probably, I’m trying to think like at least 15 years ago, and I don’t even know if the book was out yet, but it was just made sense to me like, okay, here’s my allocation for you know, like high expense, big expenses that I knew I had coming.

Yeah. I have a separate bank account, so if I get my bonus boom that money just goes in there and that’s like four saves for that and I don’t have to think about it. Yeah. So it’s the same with investments. Like I had another bank account where I make investments, whether it’s real estate or buying a business or whatever it is. And then the cash flows from those come back in and that’s basically the Profit First model, right? Like the money is coming back there first before I go and like say, Okay, now it’s time for me to buy a new car or whatever I wanna do with it. Right. Yeah. So it’s like a tool separation now, not even to get into the legal side of it, like does that sit in an LLC or other things? All lots of stuff that like people like CFO or any other accountant probably from can, can help you with, but just conceptually it’s a separate bank account and the cash flows are coming in there and it’s effectively your Profit First.

David Richter:

Yeah. No, I love that. That’s awesome. So going a little bit further with any type of business, cuz you are you know, conno sore of the business realm what do you, what would you say is the biggest thing that they should be that an entrepreneur or business owner should be tracking from the financial point of view? You know, like what are the most key indicators that they should be looking out for?

Aryeh Sheinbein:

Well, I think the way I think about it for an entrepreneur is I always tell people, like people come to me and they’re like, Well, should I be doing this? Or how should I handle this? The number one challenge I think people have is they don’t start with the end goal in mind. Yeah. In the beginning, right? Like, I always tell people like, what is the end goal? Like, what are you trying to achieve? Like in today’s world, information is everywhere, right? There’s access to tons of stuff, right? People listening to us on this podcast, you can check out, you know, things on YouTube and all this different stuff where, you know, years ago you didn’t have that, but part of it did the messaging. Like if, if you just like take a step back and you look at social media, you look at all the, the, all of the information, it always sounds like grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow.

David Richter:


Aryeh Sheinbein:

And it doesn’t necessarily mean that that’s the right answer for you, right? And so like, what does this person want in their business? Are they looking for an exit? If they’re looking for an exit? Like, what is the number that they want? Like, I know that sounds like abstract and like, what do you mean what, what do I want? Like, but if you actually take a step back from your business and you’re like, Okay, I get it, you did this cuz you didn’t wanna work for someone else. Okay, fine. Is that what you wanna do for the next 20 years in the sense of just like not work for someone else? And then if your kids wanna step in or if you wanna exit, then you’re gonna think about it like, have a plan in place because the key indicators are important, but if you don’t, if you don’t know where you’re trying to get to, you’re never gonna get there.

Right? Like, if we don’t get, get in the car and say like, Hey, I wonder where I’ll end up today. You know, like we, we know we’re going to the mall or we’re getting gas, or we’re picking up our kids or whatever we’re doing. And so it’s the same with your business. So in terms of key indicators, I think the question becomes like, do you wanna be a so printer? Do you wanna be a $10 million business? Like the only way to track the indicators of, of your specific business is knowing where your destination is gonna be so that you can kind of get there, right? So if you tell me like, I want to get to a 10 million revenue business, then we can focus on the revenue side, but understand like, are you gonna bleed cash to get there or are you looking for profitability along the way?

So depending on, on like what you’re trying to do. And so it’s, it’s an interesting conversation probably one for another time is a lot of people who are entrepreneurs and have these businesses, the amount of their net worth that’s tied up in this business is on, on a disproportionate level Oh yeah. To, to the rest of the neural net worth, right? And so, like, one of the things I try and get people to understand is like, hey, if, if you ultimately are gonna sell this and you’re gonna free that up, you definitely need to know where you’re going and you probably need to have some like annual check-ins of like, Hey, how much is my business worth? Or how is it doing? And like I know a lot of people are like, Oh, I don’t wanna pay for this, I don’t wanna pay for that, but yet you pay for, on your personal side, you pay for all this other crap, right?

Like, but you don’t wanna pay for some important things because it doesn’t necessarily quote unquote make you money today. Right? Right. And, and so if you are taking distributions or you are kind of taking cash out of the business, which totally is acceptable once it kind of gets to the other side, you know, on your personal, let’s call it personal balance sheet hey, okay, now let’s focus on making that grow. Because if it’s not gonna come out in this sale, it needs to be working for you. Just like if it was inside the business, it needs to be working for you.

David Richter:

Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. That’s awesome. So before we wrap up with the final few questions here, what product agnostic, let’s talk about that a little bit. You know, just, we talked about that up front and I really like that concept because I feel like it’s more focused on what the end user, you know, it’s what’s really best for them. So let’s just talk about that concept if you could.

Aryeh Sheinbein:

Yeah, sure. So when, when people, you know, generally think about investing or generally think about like, okay, what do I do with my money? It doesn’t have to be investing per se, right? Like, so again, focusing on the fact that like once it’s out of your business, okay, so it’s now on the personal balance sheet side of the equation. The issue I find with the overarching, you know, financial service industry is whoever you’re talking to, they’re generally selling you that thing mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So if I talk to the insurance guy, he’s going to tell me how I need this insurance, right? Whether he’s a whole life person or a term or whatever it is, right? He has the best product because he basically has a vertical that he can sell me in his suites of services and suites of product, and it’s probably AB or C.

And then if you go to the broker at Merrill Lynch or Edward Jones or wherever it is, or your cousin who tells you this, that the other thing they’re selling within the product realm that they have. So they usually can sell you stocks, they can sell you maybe some bonds, but all mutual funds. The number one thing, and you don’t actually per se think about for the fact is it’s like why aren’t they offering you something else? Right? The reality is, is each one of these verticals is set up to only be able to sell these things. It’s even, you know, in today’s world where there’s crypto, you don’t see Schwab, the platform doesn’t today allow you to trade crypto. Maybe it will in five, 10 years. So now who knows? But it’s interesting, right? Like you’re inside every vertical and everyone is always kind of pushing their product.

Yeah. So the, the marketing messaging of all of these industries, even like the real estate, Hey, learn to fix and flip. Hey, learn to wholesale, learn to do this. They’re selling that one thing right now from a marketing message, it works the best, right? Like if I tell you here’s your schorge board of options, you’re like, oh, like, you know, decision fatigue, right? But that may not be what’s best for you. And so I view it as like, hey, part of the value of, you know, my experiences, like I’ve dealt with buying businesses, I deal with investing in stocks, I deal with real estate, I deal with lending, I deal with tax lie. So all these different things, some of which have performed, some have not. Like, you know, like there’s no shame in having missteps because I think everyone over their career is no one’s gonna hit it outta the park every single time or even at least hit a single every time.

It just doesn’t happen, right? Like the guys in the hall of fame in baseball hit 300. So in looking at that, my belief is like, hey, I don’t really care what you want to invest in. If you tell me you’re gonna be nauseous because the NASDAQ is down 30% this year and it just, you’re never gonna feel okay, okay, then we can say what stable type of investments, cash flowing real estate, may better for you. Maybe even a whole life insurance may be better for you. And I’m not going to sell you one thing or the other. I’m first gonna educate you, understand the risks of every asset class, understand the benefits of every asset class and hopefully understand like the positive returns. But this way, like if you wanna call the insurance broker, hey, call the insurance broker, but now you’re educated, you wanna invest in stocks, Hey, now you’re educated, you wanna get into real estate, okay, now you’re educated and where I can give you access, great, I will give you access. But it’s much more of like a true advisor. Like you don’t, you don’t call a lawyer when you’re looking to for a plumber, right? Like he, he’s going to advise you on the legal side of it. My objective is to advise you so that you have full perspective before you get on that call with that broker who’s really only gonna sell you on that one thing.

David Richter:

Yep. Awesome. Now I love that that’s what we believe at Simple CFO too. We don’t wanna sell anyone anything. We want what’s best for them. And if that means we have it, great if not, then how do we educate them on that, that, so that’s amazing and I love that. So we’re getting down here last couple questions. Anything else you would recommend or any other advice to real estate investors, the audience that’s listening right now? That person on the other end here listening to this podcast?

Aryeh Sheinbein:

Yeah, so I, I think for the, the people who are interested in real estate in general, I think one of the big things that they always should just understand, like we touched on it a little bit, is whether you want to be in the stock market, whether you wanna be in real estate, let’s focus really on the real estate is understanding are you creating a new job for yourself or are you actually creating some sort of passive income? And, and sometimes like, I think different markets are different things in the sense of like, you know, the single family home model works for some geographies better than others. At the same time understand like even if you have a property manager, is there going to be times that you’re still going to have to manage the property manager? Yes, very much likely. But at the same time, when was the last time, if you think about like truly like large wealthy people, like generationally wealthy people that they said, Yes, I manage a portfolio of a hundred single family homes, right?

Like never, Right? That person probably is an investor in real estate. They may back the person who’s managing a hundred single family homes. Yeah. Or just back the person who owns the, you know, you know, portfolio of apartment buildings or self storage units or whatever it may be. So just think through like, hey, yes, I may be able to position it that the cash on cash return is better for a single family home, but how well does that scale when you have real money and how much money is that gonna truly drive to your, you know, personal bank account every month or every year? Right? So that’s like the point I would just kind of highlight to people.

David Richter:

Awesome. Love it. So provided a ton of value here. What’s the way that the lister can provide value back to you? Is there a way to connect with you or what, where is, how can people get more of you?

Aryeh Sheinbein:

Sure. So they can follow me on Instagram as the businessman. My website is solution advisory.com and they can head over and have a listen to my podcast, which is not Real estate Focus, it’s more business in general and leadership and financials called Inside the Lines, Then podcast available on all podcast platforms.

David Richter:

Very cool. Well re it was amazing having you on today. A lot of knowledge and a lot of, I believe a lot of value brought to the listeners, so thank you so much for being on here today.

Aryeh Sheinbein:

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.


This episode of The Profit First for REI podcast is over, but there are plenty more where that came from. Are you ready to learn how David and his team can help implement the Profit First system in your business? Schedule a discovery call@simplecfo.com right now. We’ll see you next time on The Profit First for REI podcast with David Richter.

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Title: “Realize Your REI Potential with Jennifer Steward: Authenticity, Profitability, and Consistency”

Episode: 240

In this episode of Profit First for REI podcast, we are sitting down with Jennifer Steward of REI Data Source, to unveil the secret weapon you’ve been missing: authenticity. 

Jen will crack the code on how to project a winning image that seals the deal…But wait, there’s more! Learn the top revenue activities every entrepreneur should master and discover the power of consistent strategies to solve your REI problems.

This episode is your blueprint to a thriving virtual business. Don’t miss out!

Key Takeaways:

[0:50] Introducing Jennifer Steward

[6:07] Project an image of success from

time to time

[9:16] Some best revenue activities that every entrepreneur should know

[11:00] Leveraging every avenue that you can, get consistency, and make sure you’re solving current problems

[17:43] The golden ratio in social media marketing is: 90% business and 10% personal

[25:02] The benefits of running a virtual business


[4:20] “Authenticity is like a business repellant.”

[10:09]  “In a market where you can’t dind deals but there’s plenty of money, you have to be the person who knows how to find the deals.” 

Connect with Jennifer:

REI Data Source Website: https://www.reidatasource.net 

Jen’s Email: jen@reidatasource.net 

Phone Number: (469) 952-8011

Tired of living deal to deal? 

If you are a real estate investor or business owner who is tired of living deal to deal and want to double your profits, head over here to book your no-obligation discovery call with me. Either myself or someone from my team will hop on a short call with you to get clear on your business goals, remove any obstacles holding you back, and map out a game plan to help you finally start keeping more of the money you work so hard to make. – David


Speaker 1 (00:00):

You need to just be able to solve the seller’s problem and just start with one exit strategy that you’re really confident in. And then once you master that, expand from there. And like you and I talked about, it’s who not how you don’t have time. Most likely to master all of those. So have a referral partner that you can build a relationship with and trust.

Speaker 2 (00:23):

If you’re a real estate investor who’s sick and tired of living deal to deal, then welcome home. Hear from everyday real estate investors just like you, and discover how they’ve completely transformed their business by taking a profit First approach. This is the profit first for REI podcast, where we believe revenue is vanity. Profit is sanity. It’s time to start making profit a habit in your business. So here’s your host, David Richter.

Speaker 3 (00:50):

Today we have Jennifer Stewart on which she is a go-getter. She’s out there, she’s doing lots of things. She’s in the cold calling space. She’s also a real estate investor. But then she’s also someone who I think has gone through a lot in her life and has come out on the other side stronger. And you can tell just from what she talks about and what she sees as the most successful real estate investors, what they do on a daily basis, on a monthly basis, it’s just good bottom line stuff to help you if you want to become someone who’s consistent in business, no matter what the market is doing. So I think this is going to be a really good episode. She gets into the nitty gritty and also just helping you get to where you want to be and making more money as a entrepreneur. Jennifer, welcome to the Profit First REI podcast. I’m so excited you’re here today.

Speaker 1 (01:37):

David, thank you so much for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this all weekend. What a great way to spend a Tuesday at noon and thank you. Thank you so much for having me today.

Speaker 3 (01:47):

Yeah, well I’m excited because we dance around in these different groups and we’re going to these events and you’re speaking a lot, you’re helping a lot of people out there, and I see you as someone who’s just very much, I hope this comes across, but just a very mature human being that has gone through a lot, but you haven’t just been a victim. You’ve been someone who said, I’m going to grow from what I’ve gone through, and that’s what I’ve just observed. And then honestly, there’s lots of my friends that respect you a lot too. I’ve gotten to know you well, so I’m excited about this one. So many things that I feel like we could go down, lots of roads here. So again, thank you for being on the show.

Speaker 1 (02:25):

I appreciate that. That’s very generous and kind observation. I think mature is a very polite word and I am just kind of overwhelmed with that kind assessment.

Speaker 3 (02:37):

Yeah, well, I don’t want to use any rude words for you here today, so we’re going to dive into it. No, but seriously I do. I see as someone who takes a lot of those lessons and applies them right away. I would also say too that you are not scared about sharing what you’ve learned and what you’ve gone through. Where do you get that deep sense of truth to share exactly what’s going on? And I don’t know if you’re a fan of the office or if you’ve ever seen that show. I like the Office, if you like the office. Where is it? I think it’s Kelly’s, Dayton, Daryl, and she says, he said, who says exactly what they’re thinking? What kind of game is that? And I’m like, that is Jennifer to a t. And I’m just wondering how did you get that as part of you? Because I think it’s so genuine, authentic, and it brings more people to you and they resonate. You’re saying what they’re scared to say.

Speaker 1 (03:30):

My business advisors have told me to do the opposite. They said

Speaker 3 (03:36):

Genuine, sorry. That’s great. Basically the

Speaker 1 (03:38):

More money you’re going to make, you have to play the game. And so what I’ll do, David being totally transparent, is I’ll turn that on and off depending on my revenue. So I know that sounds hilarious probably, but if my revenue gets lower, I will turn off the authenticity to a certain extent and go back into my polite game, the system mode. But whenever income is plentiful, I’ll go back to being more my authentic sharing self because number one, sometimes I get more business than I can possibly ever take down, and that’s overwhelming. And so I find that authenticity is like a business repellent, but it’s so much, it’s so stressful for me to be fake. It’s so stressful for me to be something I’m not. And that’s me being a little bit funny, but also kind of realistic as a business woman. And then there’s me as a person who has a soul and that person wants to connect. That person realizes that I’m not just here to make money, I am here to help people who are suffering. And I know that sounds cheesy and cliche, but it’s true. And lemme tell you, I don’t want to be one of those people who are suffering. So I will switch into a mode that is more polished, if that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (05:09):

That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (05:10):

Because I don’t want to starve. And so I do kind of go back and forth between, okay, I need to dial it back. And I think that people notice that if I was just all the time talking about what a person can overcome or the deep parts of our why and our feelings, then I think that would really drive away a lot of business. I’ve seen people who got up on stage and talked about aligning the chakras and they were never invited back. So you have to find a balance between being a compelling human who helps people overcome these internal struggles that we likely all face, especially as entrepreneurs, depression, anxiety, slow times debt overhead, really painful things that will keep up at night and destroy your health and destroy your relationships. And then we also need to focus on, unfortunately we have to project an image of success from time to time because I’ll tell you, I always get the most business whenever I’m on vacation, I can actively ask people to leave me alone while I’m on vacation.


And that’s whenever I get all the messages for, Hey, I want to do business with you. Because they see the success, they see that it works. When really that’s I’m spending the money, that’s whenever I’m the least successful because I’m not putting time into my business and the dollars are just flying out the window like someone who has an open wound. And so it’s funny because it’s whenever you’re doing the best that it doesn’t show, and whenever I’m making the most money, it’s usually whenever I look the worst, I haven’t had time to groom myself. I’m probably still wearing pajamas that day. And so it’s almost always the opposite as to who has money and who doesn’t. So the person you see with the super nice house and the super nice car, those people have confided in me, Hey, I have so much pressure, I feel like I’m going to lose it.


But those are the people that look up to and respect. And so that being said, David, if I was financially independent, 100% I would be genuine and deep and all the time, if that makes sense. It would be like, Hey, when you woke up today, did you thank God for just waking up? And what are some ways that you can lower your overhead? What are some ways you can increase revenue? Are you wasting time on non-revenue generating activities? Are you doing too much stuff for free? Those of us who are in real estate, I think we do too many things for free. And like you and I talked about, it’s not just your expenditures that are on your books, it’s also the expenditures that are on your time. And so I talked to my attorney last week about dropping non-revenue generating businesses that just aren’t converting because there’s hope in one hand and there’s numbers in the other.


And after a certain amount of time, you need to realize which businesses are covering for the businesses that are taking a loss. And so my lawyer kind of sat me down and I know you do this, and we had to look at which businesses are just not generating and which are carrying the ones that aren’t. And he said, just focus on the ones that are. And so that being said, whenever we wake up every day, if we are our real selves all day, it usually doesn’t translate into revenue. But when I have the luxury of being myself, David, I always want to reduce the suffering of others because that’s kind of all I’ve done my whole life is I’ve had to overcome and overcome and overcome and overcome to a degree that just feels, it could feel really unlucky if I let myself go there. But instead of feeling unlucky, I have to see the opposite side of it. So for all the extremely low probability things that happened to me, there’s also extreme low probability things that happened for me. And you have to see both.

Speaker 3 (09:11):

Right. That’s really good. That is really good. So since we’ve gone down this road, and especially for the real estate investors listening, what would you say are some of the best revenue producing activities they could be doing or that you see in your own life that you do that translates into that

Speaker 1 (09:29):

You have to fill a niche that nobody else is filling? You have to see a problem that everyone is facing a hitch in the giddy up that’s keeping everyone from making money. What I’m noticing right now, for example, people don’t have the money for down payments on their loans. So like we mentioned before the call, I’m offering a program where you can do a hundred percent financing as long as you’re one of my cold calling clients. And it blew up because people don’t have the money for a down payment right now, and my cold callers really aren’t that expensive. And so it solves that problem for them. And in the past, the biggest problem was finding deals. And in a market where you can’t find deals, but there’s plenty of money, then you have to be the person who knows how to find the deals.


And so you have to find what’s keeping people from making money today in the current market and then really, really leverage your social media and go speak, like you and I talked about before, go speak on those topics, mention it on social media, put it in your stories, tell people what you do, and then be really consistent with your message because people are watching, they want to see consistency. And it’s like my lawyer taught me, who’s Jeff Watson? If they see you being erratic and all over the place and not consistent in your message, then people don’t trust that they can go to you to solve these problems. And so that’s the big key is leveraging your social media and being really consistent in your message and making sure that you’re solving the problems of today. So those three things, consistency, solving the current problems and just making sure that you’re leveraging pretty much every avenue that you can.


And of course, always want to be competent and run an ethical business because you can spend 10 years building a reputation. And if you hire one bad employee or someone who makes you look bad or doesn’t deliver for a client, unfortunately bad news spreads like wildfire and just whatever you’re buying on Amazon, you’re going to pay more attention to the bad review than the good reviews because we’re looking for to avoid pain for good reasons. I mean, some things could take us out and set us back a decade if we make the wrong investment. And so it’s really, really important in a capital intensive business what we’re in to be someone who’s trustworthy, competent with very high integrity. Like you and I talked last week and I told you, I was like, Hey, I can’t be consulting on a topic that I don’t know about. Thank you for the inquiry. But that would be horribly unethical. And you have to do that. You have to turn down the fast money for the long-term play of having high integrity.

Speaker 3 (12:18):

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. That’s really good. I think that’s consistency, solving the problem for today and then getting the message out. So those are three steps there. And I think that’s where it’s like, it’s so simple, but it’s like that number one, you got to do it consistently and you got to move to where the market is. So I think that’s really good stuff because I can’t agree more because I think, do you think that a lot of real estate investors build themselves into a box and then when that solving the problem of what they used to do doesn’t solve it anymore, that they have a hard time pivoting to something that will and bring the revenue? Yeah,

Speaker 1 (12:57):

I mean you have your fast movers, your highly networked people who are poised to move, but for anyone who doesn’t want to hustle 24 7, it’s hard to pivot like that. I mean, at some point, I think human beings, we all want consistency, predictability. And one thing that’s really tough about this business, and I’m sure everyone notices, is how fast paced it really is. Now, if we were in the paper business, for example, David, how much do you think things change? Speaking of office space or not office space, the

Speaker 3 (13:35):

Office office,

Speaker 1 (13:36):

Yeah, yeah. I mean if we’re a paper company, how often do you think the industry changes? Right.

Speaker 3 (13:42):

It doesn’t really change. I don’t know.

Speaker 1 (13:44):

I mean maybe a paper guy comes and messages us and said, oh, you wouldn’t believe.


But it seems like from the outside looking in that real estate, every day there’s some new gimmicky stuff and you’re just like, I can’t handle this. I need to step away because I can’t handle one more gimmick. I can’t handle one more big change. It’s difficult. And so I think knowing the fundamentals, because I know people who make big money just using a yellow pad for their CRMs still, and some of these people are big names, and I don’t think he’d mind me saying, Adam Johnson, Leon Johnson’s son, he does a lot of deals just using a yellow pad. Courtney Frickey, she has her paper leads that she keeps in a file and only goes through them if she needs to. So a lot of these gimmicks just really aren’t the real deal. The real deal is not necessarily what software you’re using, it’s where are we in the market, are there more deals than money or is there more money than deals?


Those are really the main two shifts that if you pay attention to those in the market, you’re good. And people was like, oh, I do this with AI and I do that with ai. I haven’t seen AI do anything really amazing except for Google search type stuff. I mean, I’ve listened to the AI calls and they’re still not that great yet. And I keep hearing people say, oh, AI is going to be doing our acquisition management soon. Well, yes, true, but when I haven’t seen it yet and still, which problem is it solving the low money problem or the low inventory problem? And right now I think it’s market to market. It’s kind of like mushrooms and in certain markets we still have an inventory problem and other markets are more of a buyer’s market and we have more of a money problem. So you have to take it market by market, city by city and see which problem are you solving. Those are really the main two problems in real estate. And what I’ve seen is everything else is a marketing gimmick. As someone who does marketing myself, we try to repackage it to get people’s attention, but it’s kind of all the same stuff.

Speaker 3 (15:59):

Yeah, no, that makes sense. So would you say then the people like Adam and the people like Courtney, are those three things that you mentioned before consistent solve the problem for today and then the media and the messaging is that their key to success and as long as they’re consistent doing, what’s really is that or is there something that makes them different just because they go out there, and I love how you said with their CRM is a yellow legal pad, it’s none of the fancy stuff and all that where a lot of people get trapped in that rabbit hole. So that’s where my I’m wondering, yeah,

Speaker 1 (16:31):

Courtney’s really consistent on Instagram and she gets a lot of referrals. And Adam’s been in his market for 20 years, so he gets a lot of referrals. So you talk about consistency, it’s decades of consistency in Adam’s case, and Courtney has been doing it I think for 10 years, and she really gets out there in terms of, she speaks in front of realtors groups, she speaks at rhe, she holds her radio show, and she’s very consistent in her branding. She doesn’t just show herself boating on the weekend or shopping or whatever. And if you look back through her Instagram, you can see that in the past she did have more of showing her personal life. And Connor Steinbrook taught me, don’t show your personal life, just make your entire page about business. But there is one caveat to that. You don’t want to look like one of those VA generated pages where there’s no real person behind it.

Speaker 3 (17:23):


Speaker 1 (17:24):

Looks like a VA just runs my page and it’s just my VA who does everything. So I do post pictures of my family and going to the gym, and if I do go on vacation, I do post that. But too much of it makes people think you’re not available for business. So I would say the golden ratio that I’ve discovered is about 90% business and 10% personal, just to add that speckle of reality that you are a real person and not a va. And I think Courtney does that very well on her Instagram for example, and she doesn’t even have to spend money on marketing. She told me she doesn’t do that anymore. She’s a hundred percent referral based now and it’s taken being consistent

Speaker 3 (18:04):

And she does a lot of creative deals or that’s all she does is the creative type deals. She

Speaker 1 (18:10):

Does kind of everything. I know her to do flips, I know her to do. She’s mostly a buy and hold investor and she will do creative when she needs to. But I think I’ve had a lot of clients come to me over the years and try to curate a marketing plan where all we do is creative for them. And that is really tough. You’re going to have a low ratio of being able to do that. Typically creative should be something that comes organically from time to time. If you make that your only goal, and this was a guy with a lot of money, by the way, the one I’m thinking of. He had so much money, yet he was super focused on just doing creative. And I understand if someone has no money and they’re just focused on doing creative, but they get it in their head that this is the way to do it and there is no the way to do it.


You have to just solve the problem of the current seller who wants to sell, whether it’s a listing, whether it’s innovation, whether it’s a flip, whether it’s a wholesale, whether it’s long-term buying hold subject to seller finance, and anything else I’m missing in there. It shouldn’t just be, oh, I’m going to pull this list and I’m just going to do ovations or I’m going to do this campaign. I’m just going to do subject two. You need to just be able to solve the seller’s problem and just start with one, this is something I’ve taught for years. Just start with one exit strategy that you’re really competent in. And then once you master that, expand from there, and like you and I talked about, it’s who not how you don’t have time most likely to master all of those. So have a referral partner that you can build a relationship with and trust for innovations for subject to maybe even for seller financing or maybe master two, but mastering all of the above would be insanity. Even if you had been doing this for 50 years like Leon Johnson, that would be insanity. So be ready to leverage joint venture partners that you can trust with the right paperwork behind it. Of course.

Speaker 3 (20:02):

Would you say that if you go down that road, can you build a business like that? Meaning where a business is systems and other people where eventually you have a business that runs itself or runs it with the people in the processes you’ve put in place. It seems like with real estate, like you’re saying, I have to solve the seller’s problem right then and there. So it almost sounds like you need at those higher level people, you can’t just get the McDonald’s line worker that’s there or the robot or AI or something like that. That’s

Speaker 1 (20:33):

The challenge that I’ve run into. And I feel like conceptually it can be done, but then in psychology we have something called channel factors, these little things that get in the way of what sounds good on paper. And that’s usually where the human element comes in because I have staff of 180 people in my agency and I’ve learned little tricks to managing them. For example, this is going to sound weird, I don’t do company meetings because I just meet with them as I need to. I do spend a lot of time with them upfront, maybe a few hours, and then I never talk to them again except to tell them when a job has come in. And if they need more than that, they’re probably not a good fit. And I don’t do group meetings because I’ve had them all group up against me in the past to raise wages, basically wanting to unionize whenever my clients can’t afford that.


And I said, I’ll let the whole company burn down before I let you extort me in this way. And I did. And I did it privately. I didn’t tell anyone. I didn’t go public about it, but I just stopped the company for six months and just traveled. And it’s like I have plenty of money. And then they were suffering. And then once I was done traveling, they were like, Jen, please, please, I’ll come back. So who would think that there’s a human variable of needing to stop people from organizing against you, or it’s like Adam Johnson says, you have to make sure that you’re always in the way of a deal in order to get it done. So that’s why you can’t fully replace yourself for the most part unless you sell the company, is because at some point somewhere you need to add value. And yes, you can have an integrator, and yes, you can have a CEO, and yes, you can have a CFO, et cetera, but if you notice even in a C class corporation, you still have shareholders.


The shareholders are still in the way in some way because they own a part of the company. So no matter what, you have to make sure that you’re in the way of other people just taking over completely what you do and just pushing you out. And so that is the challenge. That’s where replacing, that’s what no one talks about. Everyone wants to sell these sexy business models where you’re just on the beach or whatever, but at some point you have to put yourself between yourself and someone else to make sure you’re still adding value or you’re just going to get pushed out. So another example is, I mean, you can just live like my older gentleman, friends who just own a bunch of mutual funds and they don’t manage anything. They just collect checks from the dividends, but you have to have millions in order to achieve that.


Lemme tell you, those are the people who have the most passive income that I’ve seen, and I know this is an REI podcast, but what’s great about real estate is you can start with a relatively small amount of money and then with appreciation, leverage that into millions, and then you can become the mutual fund, the note owner or your kids can get your portfolio, but it’s not as passive as just having your mutual fund dividends come in and as know the stock market goes up and down where rents typically, there’s not as much fluctuation in rents as there is in the stock market. And so all that being said, going back to what you asked, whenever you’re managing staff, there’s just going to be all these psychological factors that are not going to present themselves on paper with your staff is always the biggest challenge in running a company.


And so that’s why I don’t do company meetings because that’s whenever people get together, and pardon my language, I think it’s a poignant word. They start bitching and then that causes morale issues. All it takes is one person to start griping and then morale goes way down. And I don’t care how well you run your company, I don’t care if you are like you have in the background, I don’t care if you’re Mr. Rogers, as soon as someone starts griping and it takes hold, it’s game over. This doesn’t work if you run a brick and mortar business. But I have doctor friends, for example. They run brick and mortar businesses, and one of my doctor’s friends two weeks ago, his entire staff just walked out. They’ve been with them for 20 years and they couldn’t have organized like that if you keep them separate. If you’re running a virtual business, that’s one of the benefits is you can manage your staff. And I tell you, that has made my income extremely passive.


So if you take nothing else away from this by keeping my staff separated, I have generated true passive income for myself because all I do is bring the jobs, bring the clients, they work the clients, and then they do a good job and then I’m out. The only thing I have to do is keep bringing in new clients because there is always going to be some small amount of attrition no matter how good of a job you do for various reasons. So yeah, if you have a virtual business, keep your staff separate and that way they’re not coming together. And it’s amazing how peaceful things are. I have no drama. I have no complaints. I’ve known go well. so-and-so did this, and so-and-so said this, and so-and-so gets paid this and I want to get paid this. It’s like I have literally zero drama in my agency with my staff now, and that has just been amazing.

Speaker 3 (26:03):

Yeah, that’s the first time I’ve heard it put like that of keeping separate in that you don’t run meetings and you don’t get them together, which is very anti, a lot of the books out there and a lot of those systems and stuff that have the organizational meetings and that type of stuff, level 10 meetings or the level 10 meetings and all that, that goes along with it. So I love hearing a contrarian viewpoint, especially for someone who runs a virtual business like that and who’s gone through almost like you said, the utilization of that type of stuff. Yeah, I’ve been this for

Speaker 1 (26:37):

Six years, and so that’s enough time to where you’ve passed some task, kissed a lot of frogs and had every problem under the sun.

Speaker 3 (26:44):

Yeah, yeah, no kidding. So that’s very interesting. Well, this has been a lot of fun. I love the answers that you’ve given. I think there’s some really good value there too with being consistent, solving today’s problem and getting it out there, being consistent of getting out your message as well too. I also like that what you just went over that was so contrary to what other people say. That was really an interesting take. I want to, and I

Speaker 1 (27:10):

Would bet you my headaches are much smaller than theirs,

Speaker 3 (27:14):

Probably. Probably. I mean, well, most people have the headaches in business, and if you just have less than them that it probably wouldn’t take much if you just had just that many less. So that’s great. I love hearing that. What I wanted to talk

Speaker 1 (27:29):

Authentic draws better clients too. I did want to share that because I know I went on a bit of a rant and a ramble about that, but let me be pointing on one point is that by being my real self, David against my business advisor’s advice, the clients I have now, I have no drama with and I don’t know why I’m not smart enough, I guess to know why. But the ones who come to me whenever I’m going through times of being very authentic and just really sharing whatever it is, whatever business problems or personal problems that I may be facing and how I’m overcoming them, I get so many people, like you said, who may not do business immediately and it scares off a lot of people. But the clients who do come to me, we have no problems, no drama. They don’t blame me for a lack of success.


They just come in, show up, close their deals, and they stay long-term customers. So that is one benefit is I get fewer clients, but the ones that I do get, I have zero drama with, and we’re so simpatico that I work hard to make sure they’re successful and they don’t. Whenever I was being inauthentic and getting a lot more clients, we don’t have meetings about Jennifer, why am I spending this money and not getting any deals and then this, and they’re just being very nitpicky, but clients where I’m my authentic self, they come in and they just close deals, David, we don’t have to have awkward meetings that make me feel like crap about myself, feeling like I’m not really actually helping anyone and I’m just charging money and nothing’s happening for them. They come in and they’re like, Hey, Jen, I did this deal. I did this deal. Your staff is great. And so that was a crazy change to me. I thought, this is self-destructive behavior being this authentic, but I just felt compelled to actually help people. And then these clients are the most low maintenance clients I’ve ever had. So I would be curious what your take is on that in terms of why is it being authentic? First off, it’s interesting. It draws in less clients, but the ones that does draw in, I have zero drama, zero problems with, and they stay with me forever,

Speaker 3 (29:36):

Which is funny because what you’re describing now is in those books that tell you to have the meetings, it’s like it’s your core values. It’s the values that are shining through that. It’s people that resonate with you as a human being. So usually they’re going to be the ones, especially if you’re being authentic and being open and honest and sharing values that are just as a society, we look at and say, it’s mature what you’re doing. You draw those mature people in, so it’s like they’re going to be the ones that sit back, they do the deals, they get it done, and then they come to you and they be like, yeah, let’s keep moving forward. And that’s the low drama because projecting that out there as well too, just from what I can observe right there. But I really like that because very much of if you’re going to be yourself, you might bring in less, but you might bring more of the people that you want to work with. That’s what I took away from makes income

Speaker 1 (30:26):

More passive because that is always my goal. Low drama staff, low drama clients where we’re just doing deals. I’m providing excellent staff who are going to make sure that you’re getting in front of as many people as possible for as little money as possible, talking to those motivated sellers, getting good prices on data, getting good prices on your loans to close your deals, and just keep it simple. There shouldn’t be any insanity. There shouldn’t be a lot of complaints and craziness. And that’s not to say there’s never problems, but when there are, it’s like, Hey, Jen, we need to have a meeting because this caller’s gotten a little too lax and they’re just becoming too rote and they’re going through the motions too much. I had to have that call three months ago, but guess what? He didn’t leave. He didn’t blame. He said, Hey, let’s just fix, let’s just fix their script.


And so I told her, I said, Hey, you’re one of my best, and maybe you’re working too long hours. Maybe you need to take more breaks. Maybe we need to load you up with fewer clients because instead of listening to the seller, you are kind of just pushing through the script. I said, someone who started out cold calling myself, I noticed I would do that towards the end of my shift. And I said, so let’s just be aware that that’s what’s going on. But I didn’t blame or shame her. I just said, Hey, because I was sitting in that seat myself for so many years, David is a cold caller. I know what problems they face, and it makes me a better manager for them. And just say, Hey, it just sounds like you’re getting a little tired. And so take a 30 minute nap, take an hour nap and come back and you’ll see how all of a sudden, instead of just pushing through a script, you’re really an active listener.


But that’s the only problem client meeting I had to have in the last six months where before God, David, it seemed like it was every day. People were just pinging me with this is a problem and that’s a problem. This is a problem. And I think that’s what led to my heart attack last year at 38 years old, was just having all these clients with all these complaints and it was just driving me crazy. And now I don’t have any of that. And so just sharing my experience, whether it’s true or false or somewhere in between. It’s just my anecdotal experience.

Speaker 3 (32:36):

Well, no, that’s really good. I wish we more time, but I’m going to land the plane here. We’ll have to do another episode too about how you got through that and coming out on the other side. But if people want to get ahold of you for your cold calling and what you’re doing there and how would they get ahold of you if they want to start to work with

Speaker 1 (32:54):

You? Yeah, whether it’s the cold calling or like I said, the loans where we’re offering a hundred percent financing on both the rehab and purchase price. If they’re my cold calling client, they can just email me at jen, JEN at rre I data source.net. I’m also a really brave person who gives out my cell phone because as a cold caller, I’m not afraid to call you. You

Speaker 3 (33:18):

Can call me,

Speaker 1 (33:19):

I may think you’re a spam call and answer a little bit briskly, but my cell phone is (469) 952-8011. Feel free to call me there or Jen at REI data source.net.

Speaker 3 (33:32):

Cool. So that’s how you could get ahold of Jen, and that’s the email. And she gave your phone number as well too, so you could call her in and say, Hey, hey, just wanted to see if you answer the phone. I’m sure you will. Like you said, who does that? Right? Who? Their cell phone. Cell phone. And then who does that? And then actually answers too. I feel like today’s age, please go to voicemail. So that was good stuff. Lots of valuable information here, stuff that you could take and I think implement right away to become these type of people out there that are consistently successful. And that’s one of their keys to success is being consistent in solving today’s problem, building the message around that as well too. I really liked your insight of the type of client you draw in when you are your authentic self versus where you might get more, but it might be more headaches if you are not. So it’s like just lots of good practical things today. So that was a lot of good stuff. Thank you for sharing, Jen. I really appreciate all that you did here today.

Speaker 1 (34:26):

I appreciate it. David, thank you so much for having, thanks for asking great questions.

Speaker 3 (34:30):

And I wanted to say too, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m not making enough or whatever, first of all, call Jen, you can literally call her. She gave you her number. She can help you make more money if you need to keep the money too. If you’re like, I have no idea where my money’s going, don’t know what my overhead is, don’t know how much I’m making, how much I’m keeping, or I want to keep more, you can reach out to us@simplecfo.com. We want to help you get at least that stuff in place because if you don’t have any idea, you’re not running a business. So that’s where I want to help you at least be consistent in knowing where your money’s going too. That’s another consistency factor as well too there. But Jen, again, thank you so much for coming on and sharing, and if there’s anything that you need from Jen, you know how to get ahold of her. She gave you the email address and her phone number. Again, thank you so much for coming on today.

Speaker 2 (35:17):

This episode of The Profit First for REI podcast is over, but there are plenty more where that came from. Are you ready to learn how David and his team can help implement the Profit First system in your business? Schedule a discovery call@simplecfo.com right now. We’ll see you next time on The Profit First for REI podcast with David Richter.